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i think is a positive idear for us "small Quake comunity" make somehing to share with all Quakers in Qexpo...
and since is only 256 brushes is not a big deal and a lot of people can participate, but i think there are to many rules... :p Ok, first up, I'm not participating either way, so my opinion is irrelevant. With that said, I think you should give more serious consideration to allowing external bmodels.
Why? Firstly, it's an interesting new feature of Quoth 2. Part of the judging criteria is "use of Quoth 2 features". Secondly, if you think about it for a minute you'll realise there's going to be a few major restrictions and limitations. External bmodels are not just a free ticket to adding stacks of detail without using "standard" brushes: - there's going to be lighting issues - as an entity the external bmodel cannot block visibility - if used simply as additional detail, it will add to your entity data The last point is especially important if, as I assume will be the case, a requirement of the competition is that the map must fit within standard engine limits, so that it can be loaded and played in basically any Quake exe. Also, think beyond the competition and maybe you'll think it's a good idea to allow external bmodels, so people can get used to using them and learn the pros and cons of doing so (on paper it sounds like a feature with a lot of potential, but it's hard to know until you try it). Either way, everyone is mapping using the same rules and restrictions - it's going to be "fair" for everyone regardless of what the rules are. So I guess it all comes down to what the judging criteria will be, and what you want to place more emphasis on. All I'm saying is maybe think about it and discuss it more thoroughly, rather than making a snap decision. Personally I think you'll get more interesting and varied maps if you allow external files, while still requiring mappers to be efficient and clever in their brush/entity use (thereby satisfying the requirements for a good competition). I mentioned this in the previous post, but in case you missed it in the wall of text, I'm going to say it again:
Please tell us whether it is a requirement of the competition that the map must fit within standard engine limits, so that it can be loaded and played in basically any Quake exe. This is soft of implied in that you've said the map must be playable in FitzQuake, but I think it would be better to clearly state it in the rules so that there's no confusion. (Besides, Fitz has at least a few engine limits raised, I'd reckon the map should load in ye olde standard software Quake as well). Why?
Because allowing an indefinite amount of external brushes defies the point of having a brushlimit at all. Because allowing an indefinite amount of external brushes defies the point of having a brushlimit at all.
And what is the point? (serious question). Regardless of what the point is, you still have that same restriction - 256 world brushes. It's a fairly small amount for an SP map no matter which way you slice it. Look, I'm not trying to be disingenuous here... obviously I get that the limited brush restriction is to see what each mapper can do with limited resources. But again, that restriction is still there, and external bmodels, while helpful, are also going to have issues and be limited in number too (entity limits). My argument is that by allowing external bmodels, you may get this: - More interesting and varied maps - Additional challenge for the mappers (how to get the most out of bmodels? What's the tradeoff between entities for bmodel detail and gameplay stuff like monsters?) - More use of the new Quoth functionality Models can be called from inside id1 and Quoth1/2 - there's enough there to mess around with. Toxin tanks, air filtration systems and computer consoles might fit the various missions well, but so would a made to order progs, genestealer and space marine models.
The competition is pretty simple - a zip archive with three files only inside it; source, bsp and readme - just those, nothing extra (including It's a competition based on limits. How well you map when so heavily restricted is if you deserve to win David McKenna's Fiend or not - a decent carrot if ever there was. On a technical note, you may want to choose a different name for your start map. There is already a start.bsp map in the quoth package, and since it is in the pak file it will override whatever start map you provide. Something like sh_start might be better.
...all good stuff (which pretty much followed my initial lengthy ruminations), and what initially made me say booyah if Quoth(2) can do it...it's in. However, I think there's enough new stuff in Quoth(2) for mappers to explore this time round, without including external files. Perhaps a future competition with more lead in time, fewer limits and (most importantly) a greater turn around time from deadline to release might include all Quoth(2)'s goodness.
The map must fit within the fitzquake 0.80 engine limits. Preach: even if the start level is in a pak with the rest of the maps, files etc. in it's own directory off Quoth? Or is there some problem setting it up this way? As to 'too many rules', there's been brush restricted comps before and brush/texture restricted comps, all this does is add a restriction that strengthens theme. All the rest are what you would generally (though - technically - not in all cases) expect to do anyway if you were submitting an SP release worthy of release. The skill selection area is complete bar some final tweaking of the lighting, and then I'll start on the halls of glory (rest assured, there'll be no cesspit in this introduction level hehee!). If you do it like that you're also going to have to supply the entirety of quoth again, because there's no way to tell it to use the mod from the quoth directory with files from another directory. It'd be much easier to just supply maps with a unique name, as then people can extract them into their current quoth install.
Ta much Preach, and Lardarse...an elegant solution.
Let's have those trigger_changelevels point to 'sh_start' (force of habit, I like to keep what day of june is? i�m in vacation i dont have quark in here or anything to map :p but i whould like to make a map since is only 256 brushes...
looks nice, but what about making the nightmare entrance(hell?) a little secret? Even if it's just an obvious button or something, I always enjoy start maps more that way.
I'm not on holidays, I'm currently working on a huge map project... so no time to participate :( Sorry my friend ;) Maybe I'll ask you to beta test my map ;)
...no prob JPL. Trinca, you should have at least 4 weeks to get something together after you finish your hols.
Judges finalised: scragbait, seilwolf and kell. If a kind moderator could edit the judges list and change 'start' to 'sh_start' in the 'limits' section I'd be most grateful. I've been "budgeting" my map, seeing how many brushes I need for various things, and I think I have 30 spare brushes. Any ideas for what I could do with them?
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