Much more than Arcanum for me. It was pretty fun on skill 0 (except when I had to cheat for ammo at some places). Liked how ridiculously unapologetic the first map was with just tossing a bunch of pickups at the player in map 1. The final map feels like a 1996-created Doom 3 from an alternate universe. The gravity change made sense but I'd tone it down somewhat myself.

The Sidewinder felt too weak. Was there a regular RL as a secret somewhere? 

so the final level has 400 monsters, a single quad and 5 bosses. Usually Tronyn's boss fights are insanely hard. So why would I grab the quad at the start of the level to take out the 200 or so weaker enemies knowing that there's tougher to come? My strategy of leaving the quad for later was fine. As for the other stuff, I still had 3 MH's left over, 2 RA's and the stuff at the top of the tower. I'm not even sure what half of it does, but I didn't need it and never even went back for it.

For the first level... yeah I got the alternate GL and it's 5 grenades. That didn't do much with the quad. Nor does a bow & arrow or ssg. The only good weapon to use with the quad was a ng, but there was only 100-150 nails at that point. The problem I had is that the few times I replayed the start I grabbed the quad before heading up. What would make it better is heading up, getting all the ammo and weapons and then returning for the quad. But tbh, that's not good item placement.

Anyway, those are the only faults I had with the levels. Just because someone has faults doesn't mean they're having a period. And who the hell are you anyway? 

The sidewinder was made purposefully weak, to be about par with the nailgun, for two reasons. One, Tronyn thinks the rocket launcher is generally overpowered, and in levels comparable to Quake's stock levels, I would agree. Two, since soldiers drop their weapons when killed, I do not want rocket grunts and the like to drop rocket launchers, and grenade launchers would be inappropriate. Thus, the sidewinder was made as an alternative to the rocket launcher. 

[Kona] did what I would have done. That is, save the quad for the final bosses. 

Liked it better than Arcanum.

But, somehow, you feel all that fantastic spaces are put to waste with all the relentless run 'n gun interspersed by the episodic 2 buttons to push to proceed.

See Necros latest effort. Outrageous looks paired with very well thought out gameplay and progression. A gem.


With a little bit more work on gameplay and situation setup, Tronyn's maps could achieve levels of epicness second only to his brushwork awesomeness.

Imho, these three would have been fantastic bookend pieces for a full episode, and their epic scope would get enhanced by comparison to smaller maps, the way they're presented, one after another, kinda loses the effect. A true pity.

Low grav was quite fun, btw, and, on skill 1, I've been able to get like 150 kills without shooting a shell... Dunno if that's good or bad.

Gotta test Nightmare to see if fun's the same... :D

A good depressurizer after a hard day's work... Thanks, Tronyn. 

...Cyberdemon boss?

Have you never played Scourge of Armagon? If so, you're missing out!!! 

-any remaining problems are not negke's fault, since he pointed out a ton of stuff didn't get to or couldn't do since in time since it would have required another progs, or even worse another map compile (unf3 is 500+ hours vistime - thanks zwiffle! lol). for the "Drake Merger," _everything_ will be meticulously rebalanced, since I'll have a long time to do it. For this release, it was either around QEXPO, or wait another month, which I figured would piss people off (including me) more.

as for the gameplay, I understand the issues, the first map probably should have been more subtle (deleting the hordes outside the fort is a good idea), to build up to the ridiculous levels of the last map, as opposed to starting out that way. After the Drake Merger, when I start building Q1SP's again from scratch, I'm going to try something entirely different, not horde combat, and probably not outdoors either. 

when I start building Q1SP's again from scratch, I'm going to try something entirely different, not horde combat, and probably not outdoors either.

Not dissing 10+ years of your work, but I'm looking forward to that. 

as a warning, if you are using quakespasm, you must use a higher -zone size or the game will crash when you go through the end portal. use -zone 2048 to be safe.
this is a bug in quakespasm and not the mod. quakespasm uses the zone memory in a non-standard way, storing extra stuff in there and causing it to require more space.

as for the first map itself, i loved it! i single handedly took on an entire fucking army!!! :D
quadded up on NG first, then kept moving around, sometimes getting chainsaw action in, and LG on big groups where i could just slice the beam right through them!
i'll upload demos when i finish the pack. 

You're wrong about the amount of nails, have a nother look, or maybe another route ? And quite often when quaded sg > ssg especialy vs small critters since its more accurate at distance and a higher firerate. The bow is actualy pretty decent when quaded but i had to get used to it due to its limited range and the way it builds up power. But i had try's on my run i woudl get the quadgrenadejump up to the tower but miss the trigger wich spawns the dragons, but found out i could quad-quadbow-jump to it :)

Safing a quad for the last boss kinda makes sense i agree, and its a shame the boss doesnt start of shielded so it can do his thing and be a serious challenge.
But having said that the real issue is monster infighting imo and im always amazed the modders leave that unchanged when trying to create these epic levels. Even though most runners love this.
But my point actualy was, you cant expect a mapper to make a map wich nescesarily fits your style of play and go on a rampage about it. I could point out many maps wich would suck for speedrunning but imo i would only make myself silly:) SO i your case i would have given the map another go used the quad on other stuff (maybe on the chton since you said he had lots of hp) and try the last boss without quad but making use of the stuff on the roof (i didnt completly get what the shotgun optimiser does either) and try to finish the map in a decent time, and preferably record a demo worth watching! 

What's up with you? 

...about time we got an EDIT function here... 

Speeds up shotguns' firing rate. With it, double shotgun DPS is close to super nailgun DPS. I decided to add a shotgun upgrade item instead of another shotgun variant, such as Nehahra's auto shotgun, for levels or sections where anything less than 150 DPS is too weak. 

this was great! i dunno, i guess i'm still a sucker for horde combat, but this makes me want to do a horde map!

starts off with a bang with the crazy battle against the entire garrison, then the snow covered castle high up in the mountains and then that crazy hell world with armies of demons! great variety and the third map gives you an AWESOME view from the top of the tower!

http://necros.slipgateconstruct.com/temp/ne_unf_demos.7z (26mb) i can upload a .zip if you need.
warning: unzipped, these demos total 764mb!

i had a blast playing all of these! never really got lost or anything. was always able to figure out where to go. i think the second map was my favourite, with the first, then third. third map was a little heavy on sniping monsters but flying boost were so much fun!
i loved that the super crossbow had a slowing effect on bosses instead of just insta killing them.
i think i would have preferred if the crossbow only slowed the minotaurs and dragons too instead of killing them outright. felt too easy when i used it on them. i'd really like to see more 'debuff' weapons in the future. slowing effects (like maybe so fiends and tarbabies can't jump), stuns, etc... makes it a little tactical. i'd swap to crossbow to slow down the boss, then swap back to other weapons. makes it so you can take on powerful bosses with just a SSG if you're smart about it.

also, i think map 3 could have used a regular RL too, btw. would have helped for those vores but might have made it too easy.
mirv was fun though! ^_^

first map: died once before i figured out what to do. basically keep moving so you can get enough supplies. quadded up NG for the start then chainsaw those weak archers, nab up the stronger weapons to complete the destruction. those rocks near the entry path could be clipped though. i got stuck on them.

second map: didn't die, although i thought i was going to a few times. was a big surprise when i popped up next to the GK. i didn't realize it was a big loop. very cool for interconnectivity like that.

third map: died twice to armagon, both times because i was dumb. :P
first time i tried to take him on while flying. he swatted me out of the sky easily, of course. second time, i just got stuck in a corner......
the last boss went down fast though. i was kind of sad, but at the same time, i nearly died, so it's probably a good thing i killed him when i did.

thanks so much for this great pack! it was a riot to play and now i have map 3's music stuck in my head. :P 

finally can run it without any problems:)

Nightmare 100% on unf1 in 10:13, had to look around for a couple but thats no wonder with 400+ monsters 

Silent: i tought ii cooled down quite a bit in my 2nd post? The first i was a bit anoyed and maybe a bit over the top reaction , just got annoyed to see someone who put in so much work getting dissed, mainly by personal preferences being stated as facts.
Necors: debuffing weapons would be awesome: some other options: a weapon wich could temporarily remove the shields of mobs like the Unf3 boss, affect the targets aim, dispelling/ or preventing of casting minions 

I thought the final boss was quite a bitch. The first stage of the battle was okay, but the second stage had me die all the time. The shots were so fast and powerful. I didn't use the quad for it though.

unf3 is the kind of level that many Doom players would enjoy most ("slaughter map"). 

i didn't use the quad for it either.
it was over so fast, i don't remember exactly what happened...

it started off with the guy. i shot him once with the cross bow then blasted him 3 or 4 times with the mirv with all 5 rockets. then he turned into(?) the dragon.
i swapped back to xbow, shot it once, then emptied my cells, again with the xbow, shot my remaining nails (with another xbow in between nails) and then one more xbow shot + a few blasts of the ssg. i think that's what happened anyway. o.0 i think i ended with like 50hp and no armor. 

Does he behave differently on lower skills, different health? I played on skill 2. Maybe I was just too lame and my complaint about it unjustified.. 

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter that much if the last 2 bosses weren't that hard (although it could have been because I had quad), because the entire level is like one huge finale.

I didn't like the sidewinder but the more powerful SSG was awesome. It makes mince meat out of pretty much everyone. I liked the regen health in the first map too, although I never found another one in the other maps (i'm useless at finding secrets).

Re cyberdemon type guy... oh yes it is Armagon! :D Haven't played SOA in years.

Also spawning into map3 and seeing that huge tower in the distance was really epic! You don't get many scenes like that in Quake. And being up in the tower was awesome as well.

I really liked the Minotaurs as well. They were easily to strafe one at a time, but a few at once was good. They fit the Quake world quite well and look scary. 

fantastic atmosphere, good combat. Plenty of downtime to enjoy the scenery too

Maps 1 and 3 were a bit meh IMHO. The combat is relentless and I found them a bit boring because of that. The fortress in map 1 looks good but need more downtime in combat to be impressed by the visuals. 

Unforgiven should be on quaddicted. If nothing else, it should replace the old Drake because of the model mixed up bug. Bugged stuff shouldn't be on quaddicted. 

map unf1
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/unf1_spy3.rar

Map 2 Was Awesome i agree , the map2 is highlight of the pak 

regarding the maps overall. Not your best pack so far, though still very very impressive. Hard to top what you pulled off in Arcanum...