As far as I can tell gtk can use .fgd files. 

FWIW, .def files are essentially just dumps of the comment sections that are above each class in the QuakeC source. Assuming the comments are up to date, they are incredibly easy to generate. And I wish the Quoth team would do so. :) 

because a lot of stuff doesn't have comments, so it's not actually a matter of copy and pasting.

in any case, this is the def i use for editing in qe3 (qe3 is .qc files, instead of .def, but format is identical)

http://necros.quaddicted.com/temp/quoth.qc

very likely there's stuff missing and/or outdated info. i usually don't even bother and just copy and paste whatever entity is close by and rename the classname. :S 

That's why I qualified it with the comments being up to date. If you don't have up to date class headers then it's pretty obvious that a complete DEF file is never going to happen. 

Yeah, but what you're saying is "if the team wrote a def file, then there would be a def file". There's no benefit to the qc to write those comments. 

"There's no benefit to the qc to write those comments."

I can think of one : easy and painless generation of a valid DEF file whenever a new version of Quoth gets released. 

Yes yes, you're advocating that he keep the documentation current, to make it easy to release current documentation. He's saying.. the documentation isn't current because the documentation hasn't been kept current. 

taking some risks and doing things that might not be the standard

sounds good 

with skyboxes. 

"He's saying.. the documentation isn't current because the documentation hasn't been kept current."

I know it's a touchy area for some coders but keeping the class header up to date is a fairly standard thing to do when writing code as part of a group. I know Quoth is a free project that's done because the group enjoys Quake and so on but still ... I think it would get used a lot more, and a lot more effectively, if the DEF file was simply released with each version.

The Quoth guys put together sample maps and a whole web site dedicated to the mod - yet can't keep code comments up to date when a new spawn flag is added? :)

Anyway, it's not that important. I just won't be using Quoth until I can work up the energy to piece together what I need from whatever scraps of info are available.

As far as this map event goes, I'm in! 

There's no point talking about it like code comments, because there's no point putting it in the code, we might as well just write a def file if we're gonna write a def file. As far as I know, all of the quoth developers use worldcraft, so we're not going to be able to thoroughly test a def file in any case. 

ye, go replay the pack for inspiracion!!! 

It's not my beer, but putting in the QUAKED stuff doesn't cost anything. As for testing, users will do that for you. Sorry for the OT. 

I really dont see why it matters if people make Quoth or Id1?

It should be up to the mapper surely :)

Somebody give me one good reason why we cant just have it up to the mapper. Mappers choice:

1 - All maps must be in by March 8th

2 - All maps must be limited to 2500 brushes

3 - All maps must be of the coagula style to be included in the pack

4 - Any mod you like!

5 - or die 

To maintain consistency within the pack so the maps can be played in sequence (possibly with a start map).

If I think of a second good reason I'll let you know (however, it seems unlikely given my current state ;) 

Too complicated.

Just make maps. Maybe have a hub if anyone can be arsed.

Simpler is a lot better.

It's a good point about skyboxes tho. Would be nice. Surely fitz or something supports them?? 

the previous coagula comps had a custom progs that would reset weapons for each map. (they had hub maps that linked them together, iirc) 

the previous coagula comps had a custom progs that would reset weapons for each map. (they had hub maps that linked them together, iirc) 

crap. 

LOL, oh man, I'll be happy to play it after all this time. IIRC, it used Lunaran's green Doom3 textures. 

hehe that's the one! Well, not doom3 exactly, that map predates doom3 for sure. It also runs slower! 

the previous coagula comps had a custom progs that would reset weapons for each map. (they had hub maps that linked them together, iirc)

why a start map to reset?
type "map blabla" and all weapons are reset

start map = waste of time mapping... 

simple is best I think :)

*coagula style (void, dmstarts, sp)
*id1
*a start map (I'll do it if nobody else can be arsed)
*march 30th

I think it's best to not set any limit on the number of brushes, but a suggested max of 2500 might control people from going crazy and then getting bogged down and losing interest in the map after a week :)

Also, on top of that, I suggest that for consistency all maps should use a skybox, a cd track and the name when entering the level should be formatted in the same way.

Oh, and isn't there a way in id1 to reset weapons when starting a map other than using the episode gate? Maybe we could just use a hack? 

Except for the skybox bit. No Coagula-style map ever had anything else than black void. It should stay that way.

Resetting weapons and ammo is possible with a hack. Not sure about armor though. 

Skybox will put things a little weirdo...

Deadline 30 march is perfect... i don�t have much time to map so, i think is cool to have almost two month!