I've half-built the third map of my ideal Quake episode half a dozen times by now probably. The problem is, every time I have a good long bash at it I learn something new about Quake mapping which I then want to go back and add! 

I'm actually pretty good at finishing stuff - it just goes through multiple abandonments and takes many years. SoE - started 1997, abandoned, returned to and released in 2002. My upcoming stuff is almost all old stuff that was long abandoned and has been resurrected. I hate the idea of leaving large amounts of finished brushwork sitting to rot.

If I start an idea I almost always finish it. I've even considered remaking more of my An Old, Old Evil maps (soe2m4/5, and masque, were from that, my first project, started in 1997). 

i'd love to see an 'inverted' Masque map from you, to be honest :) 

well, after I get my current batch of maps out I'm considering starting a new map from scratch for the first time in years. I've got a few ideas, one of which is an "inverted" Masque map combined with a remake of some id stuff. Maybe I'll try two from-scratch maps - it takes me forever to finish maps since I always have so many on the go at once (that is, I'm always doing episodes, not single maps). I like this idea but I also want a chance to use the custom textures. 

 

well maybe more like "re-use." 

I've had plenty of ideas for community projects and events (turtle maps, etc) that I thought would be a lot of fun but a pain to organize.

One idea was World War Q, or something equally ridiculous sounding, which was basically teams of mappers organized by nationality to somehow compete against each other, or at least to form a map together or perhaps a small episode.

That would be way too hard to organize, probably not enough people would be interested, and team UK would undoubtedly win. A close second would have been Russia if Pulsar and Speedy still mapped (not sure if they do, is speedy still "retired" from Quake?)

But I thought something like that would be a lot of fun. 

here's a vaguely (not really) related idea:
what about the idea of tribute maps, that is, maps where each major scene is a remake of a previous map's scene or idea (id or otherwise). I had the underwater temple scene as a tribute to Rescoe's Shadow, it'd be interesting to see maybe a chain map where a whole bunch of mappers remake one of their favourite Q1 scenes, and then someone else makes maps out of them. 

 

or where there's a chain of tribute maps, each tribute is of the tribute that came before. sort of like broken telephone except each mapper reinterprets the next map. i wonder how many elements of the original would survive... :P 

awesome idea necros, just imagine if the theme was "Netherworld traps" starting with something as "innocent" as dm2 or e3m5 (just transporting you!) ... 

A remake project that aimed to recreate the original game, filling in blanks left in, refining the gameplay and making it more awesome than the return of Jesus Christ on a manticore in outer space playing electric guitar.

Forgot where I was going there.

Time for one last glass before I retire. 

I think I know what you're saying "filling in the blanks." Storywise, Nehahra did that BEAUTIFULLY, and it was worth (lol in my humble view) Mindcrime's girlfriend leaving him over it. That was amazing.

but what if, the last couple posts seem to imply, there was an intermediary map BETWEEN idmapx and idmapx. THAT is interesting.

I always imagined that e1m4, for example, was very much literally below e1m5, as it would be if you combined the two maps. 

I always imagined that e1m4, for example, was very much literally below e1m5, as it would be if you combined the two maps.

heh, ended up that way when i did it. :P 

Like the lost entrance to the dismal oubliette.

Wasn't someone mentioning an idea a while back to compile all the maps from an episode inside each other?

So no level intermissions, just a sprawling network of unlocking sub sections.

Hm. If I ever finish Ep3 I might steal that idea . . . 

and i did it for e1, but it wasn't all that interesting to play the maps over again so i never bothered with doing the other episodes.

the only important thing you need to do when combining maps is to go into a text editor and edit the .map files.

you have to search for strings:
"target" "
and replace with
"target" "e1m1_

and the same with targetname so you don't get cross connected target/targetname pairs. after that, you can just paste stuff in. 

Lost a post there. A very eloquent one ;P

Baby carrying waits for no man.

I meant steal the concept for a series of remake maps - Gb's done alot to reorganise his stuff creatively and I'm lacking. Combining some might be good. They're bigger than the originals, so can't combine more than, say, 2-3. 

I like the idea of everything opening up sectionally, while hopefully remaining intelligible to the average player.

A level design challenge, probably, but more as a route problem instead of a spatial, art or gameplay one. 

once when I still had the SOE sources (since lost), I thought of remaking SoE e1 in a single map, since the maps were all designed to fit together (soeE2, despite the fact that some of the maps were designed to fit together and indeed were once single maps (ie soe2m4/5), is too big/messy for that).

I think the idea that appeals to me from SoE now is the "multiple routes to infiltrate a structure" from soe1m4. NSOE was more just blatantly nonlinear doom-style blastfest, strategy was important but it was hardly a sneak-fest (lol), that wasn't even an option.

I think e3 is the most suited id episode for combination, but I'd love to see a single map of e1m3, e1m4, and e1m5. 

Ideally (I think) the player should be led through the early routes in a lineal fashion with one area acting as a hub with the locked areas being clearly signposted. As new stuff is found (gold / silver / shambler's head key) the player remembers where they saw the relevant locked door (struture / portal etc) to use the item on.

Would be tricky to get it right without holding the players hand too much, or introducing a naff compass helper type HUD or item. 

About e3 being good for mixing as well - it can be very samey looking in the middle. I think this'd work best with completely different looking areas.

Kind of like Zer's mix of blood and base in that early cinematic. Always though it was a shame that wasn't expanded into something playable.

Like A Roman Wildnerness ;) 

Oh yeah another map idea I had which I really wanted to work on but couldn't wrestle down a good layout was a map where the walls keep lowering as you progress, changing the layout of previously traversed areas. The whole thing was meant to feel like being inside some Elder God's puzzle-box contraption.

So you walk to one end of an area, press a button, the walls come down revealing some newer areas that transform the area and allow a new progression back to another button, which also transforms ... etc etc

Totally doable, but just really hard to do right. 

that's an awesome idea

re: ijed
I see what you're saying about the themes. I still think e3 would work best though, since it's the episode in which it matters least "where the sky is" if you see what I'm saying. I don't think a quake level would have enough room to join things horizontally, and besides things would be more interesting/interwoven if joined vertically. Therefore, an episode like e3 would be great because the potential for joining is a lot wider. 

The lowering ceiling thing makes me think of that falling ceiling puzzle in HL1 - the bit where the ceiling caves in piece by piece and the solution is to jump up onto one of the pieces that's already fallen.

Logistical nightmare to make what you're describing. But it'd be . . . awesome.

As to ep3, yeah, it'd lock together better, but more as a big map (vertically is a given I think). I was thinking more in terms of making the phrase 'slipgate traveller' more important. So a very minor change needing alot of work I suppose.

We've got the ability to transfer key objects across maps, so the only real bonus of what I have in mind would be the lack of a loading screen. The downside being a warp style trawl through the level. Hopefully mitigated by the contrasting visual styles.

Hm.

What you say about the sky gets me thinking of a massive metal structure floating in the sky, a series of interlinked puzzle pieces navigable to the player - to steal Zwif's thought process.

So the sky could just be outside, not necessarily above. But that'd change my slipgates only idea. 

What I'm driving at is how to justify the distinction between big map and multiple maps inside the same.