Drama is never over. 

Beef never changes. 

 

And didn't know where else to put it:

[17:59] Clench Throckmorton: i'm tempted to spare you the deets of my latest bathroom expedition @Shambler
[18:00] Clench Throckmorton: there was no joy to be had in it, especially not for me
[18:00] Clench Throckmorton: at one point, i honestly thought I was about to pull an elvis
[18:01] Clench Throckmorton: and the thought ran through my mind "which poor fucker will be the one who finds me like this?"
[18:01] Clench Throckmorton: tldr version....
[18:01] Clench Throckmorton: the quality of my diet over christmas went to absolute fucking pot
[18:02] Clench Throckmorton: and I very painfully paid the price in an unbelievably unpleasant and torturous way
[18:02] Clench Throckmorton: at one point i had to literally work it out with a fucking finger
[18:03] Clench Throckmorton: that has added a few mental scars i can fucking tell you that for nothing
[18:03] Clench Throckmorton: anyway, not in the best of moods right now.
[18:03] Clench Throckmorton: gonna have a cuppa and reflect on the new year
[18:03] Clench Throckmorton: maybe i do things differently from now on, i dunno 

Ok,

People who are just a bit off, as many are, openly or suppressed, but not offensive - I do not see them getting treated meanly for just being odd or saying odd stuff. This I would say is an even a better outcome than would become to, say, a kid in school being odd :D

Someone having a meltdown - suffering of mental illness, of whichever degree, well, what ?

Does having a disease excuse antisocial behavior in society at large ? Should it here ? Why should it particularly be that people are supposed to react in a special way here ?

What happens in public if one starts ranting off aggressively at people ? They stop and say - oh no poor dear he has a mental illness we must embrace his shitty attitude ?

Don't get me wrong, some metldowns are indeed gut wrenching (for anyone with a touch of empathy) but expecting internet people on forums to not take a slag at such meltdown especially if it contains insulting content - is just out of touch.

People with severe mental illness do need help and not dissing, but among a loose knit group of game/creative enthusiasts is not the place to hope to get it from. its not the function of such a place, it is not a "safe space", its a community of rando people tied by interest in creative activities, no more. You will get unpleasant brush ups with what you perceive to be unpleasant people, one has to deal with such things, it is not elsewise outside the house.
You might through PM get something more, forge a closer friendship with some members of such a community, but this is not going to happen with any community "at large" othe than ones focused on being support groups around the subject of mental illness. 

I was going to post this in the Quake 1.5 mod thread, but decided against that since it's off topic and will possible incur a good flaming.


I get that not everyone likes this mod and that most people can give a valid reason why they don't like it. I personally haven't played it so I cannot say. I did like some of the things I saw in the videos, even though I'm not a fan of the DP aesthetics either.

What I don't understand is the amount of vitriol that's being poured out over this by some people on this board, and elsewhere. Is it really not possible to discuss the merits / faults of this mod without resorting to this kind of language? How hard is it to write "hey, nice effort, but it's not my cup of tea because of X, Y, and Z" instead?

You can be against something without vilifying it our the people who made it. I know it's kind of in the DNA of this community to be overly harsh and critical, but I personally thing it's getting a bit old, and it's detrimental to the overall purpose of this place, which is advocating and improving the Quake mapping (and modding) community.

A lot of people are putting a great effort into keeping this place alive by attracting new talent in various ways. This kind of behavior just counteracts all of these efforts.

Please take a second to read whatever you are posting before you submit it, and maybe tone down the language here and there. You can criticize without being aggressive. 

What kind of "new talent" is it if they're not attracted to Quake by the multiple other great things happening that happened in the recent past, but instead it's Brutal Bloom that attracts them? 

....like accusing people of having "infantile knee-jerk reactions"?? 

It increases the likelihood of them seeing the other content as well. Also generally people are more likely to join a conversation rather that a flamewar. 

My rant applies to both sides of the aisle ;-) 

You're not alone with your thoughts. 

I take it you're unfamiliar with how big Brutal Doom is, and how tunnel visioned its fanbase is. The question "will this run with brutal doom" is practically a running joke amongst the Doom mappers nowadays.

I can't speak for every single mapper obviously, but I would find it very sad, and frustrating, that people would be interested in playing my content only with a mod that actively spoils the experience I intended the player to have. 

What you‘re saying seems like a proper argument to dislike it. I was taking offense with the way such feedback is offered by some people. 

Those that create...
...and those that critique.

...actually I suppose there's a third type of person which is "those that create and ALSO critique", which I guess categorises a lot of us considering 90% of the people posting here are mappers, even the trolls. Also, for symmetry purposes I guess we also have to include a 4th type - which is "those that neither create NOR critique", but you probably don't hear much about them on this board, and they wouldn't really have much to post that's particularly interesting or informative. Hmmmm... actually that leads to what I would consider a 5th type of person, roughly corresponding to "those that create, and are all really nice and uncritical to other people at the time, because they want other people to be nice to them and their maps, but then if they've gone on a mapping hiatus for quite a long while, they lapse back into being all cynical and critical because they have no immediate worries about burning bridges that might cause a backlash regarding projects that they are personally involved in." And then conversely, I guess there's a 6th type of person, best described as "one who both maps and/or doesn't map depending on mood/time, and just says what he likes and doesn't give a flying monkey's bollocks about what others think". Oh, and also I guess there's a 7th type of person, who never maps and has never mapped, but does post here, and is also really nice and friendly and positive to all and everyone all the time, a sort of "wallpaper cheerleader" if you want to coin a term for it (which I guess I just did - please credit me if you use that term). Also - and probably unlikely, this one - I guess it's theoretically possible to include an 8th type of person, who is really nice to people when he is NOT active in the scene (mapping), yet bizarrely really shitty to people only when he IS active in the scene (mapping). Perhaps this theoretical type of mapper could be discovered in the wild one day, but I'm not sure we've seen one yet. In any case he's probably quite difficult to work with in collaborative projects. So anyway, as I was saying... 

 

You're a textbook Type 6, shamblechaps, for sure. 

Backhanded mea culpas aren't allowed here? Pu-lease. 

Backhanded mea culpas aren't allowed here? Pu-lease. 

Quake is what makes people play it.

Quake is 1.5. 

 

Some people will hate Darkplaces mods because they hate Darkplaces. And some people hates Darkplaces because they hate LordHavoc.

All I know is that there was a lot of drama about DP because of Xonotic/Nexuiz, and about LH because of politics.

FTEQW also has lots of the same features found in DP, but people don't hate it. People who aren't fans of the FTEQW style simply ignore it.

It's quite sad that while Carmack wanted people to enjoy being wildly creative with his games, a significant part of the fanbase hates that.

If Quake was supposed to be a sacred thing where deviating from the norm should be frowned upon, id software could have kept if fully closed source with nothing more than a SnapMap-styled editor.

It's quite ridiculous that people who considers themselves Quake fans hates the freedom that Carmack's work is about. It's sad to see silly drama being put above that freedom. 

Sounds like Carmack is messiah and we fight against each other like medieval orthodox and catholics.
It's a shame cause Quake is just a game. Legendary inspiring... entertainment! 

Some people will hate Darkplaces mods because they hate Darkplaces. And some people hates Darkplaces because they hate LordHavoc.

I actually think most of the the DP (ooh behave) "haters" here, dislike DP mainly not because of those reasons.

They dislike it because DP has become synonymous with the garish, tasteless "shovelware from 2002" look that many of the modders using DP actively choose to pursue - I'm talking blown-out full-saturation primary-coloured lighting, HD textures that seem to have been created using up to, but no more than, 2 clicks on a photoshop filter, and bloom that makes you wonder whether it's astigmatism kicking in, or the dreaded cataracts are starting to play up.

Let's say you have an Uncle - call him Toby - but every time Uncle Toby picks you up from school, he insists on wearing a fucking clown costume, and spraying all the rest of the kids and waiting parents in the eyes with his stupid fucking water-pistol clown-flower. Now, Toby's otherwise a nice chap - he's a smart guy and has the potential to be good - but every time he comes out he pulls this shit.

Ask yourself this - do you really hate Uncle Toby? Or would you, maybe, give him a second chance if once in his life he just put the stupid clown shit away and starting acting his age? 

If you're not running ULTRA settings with HD textures then you must have a shit PC. It's 2019 lol. 

I don't see people blaming the QW engines for the d_mipcap 3 high fov etc crappy looking configs that many multiplayer users uses.

I understand people disliking what users do, but it's silly to blame the engine.

The only other case I remember of people specifically hating an engine was Tenebrae. But in that case the engine was really not intended to retain the classic look & feel.

My only problems with DP are the viewmodel position (which has no cvar for a classic fov 100 look) and the bloated system requirements. FTEQW is more lightweight despite offering similar features. Still, I don't hate DP for it.