there are people selling them on messageboards quite cheaply... if you have some space to store a few good CRT:s. (not too moist or temperature swinging) 

I'd love to get rid of my 21", 50Kg, 80W monitor and get a TFT. Wanna swap? 

Is that an IBM? Oh well they haven't done displays for ages. 

I just checked, the memory from the lasting moving it was a bit blurred, it's "just" 30Kg. But 120W typical usage. 

Whats the top resolution? 

Just get an LCD panel that can do 75hz, then you can get max fps in Quake with vsync on and you're all good. :D

No, it's still probably not enough for the die hard CRT fans, but it makes it a bit more tolerable. I do actually understand why you'd still want a CRT, I just feel that as long as the response time on the LCD panel is low enough, the benefits outweigh the downsides. 

Bought an 6800LE from ebay today (35+10=AU$45). Anyway, looking at the box, i thought "That's weird. It says nothing 'bout LE". Anyway, it's a Leadtek A400 TDH, a vanilla 6800 i think. Better still, i just unlocked it to full 16 pipelines/6 vertexes, no problems so far. Sweet.

Quake 4 looks amazing in high quality too (never seen it before). GZDoom::Torment an torture runs nice... F-ing Darkplaces and Nsoe3 still runs like a dog though - laugh. 

Anyway, tested it through and through with Q4. My socket 754 memory sub-system is the bottle neck now. Benching id_demo001, CPU is only at 70%, image quality settings make no diff, and removing my second 256 meg simm to increase ddr speeds from 333 to 400, i get a 4% speed up from 48 fps to 50 fps.

When i find a cheap nforce3 board (with PCI lock) i'll give my sempron 3400 a good overclocking. Its a 2GHz part, but people report getting 2.6, 2.7GHz without much problems. 

From my long-suffering girlfreind....

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=computersperipherals&type=monitors&subtype=lcd&model_cd=LS24MYKRBQ/XAA

I know its only 5ms response, but frankly I cant tell the difference. When I used to play Quake in the office it was on an 8ms response monitor, and I thought it looked fine!!

Havent got it out of the box yet though.... 

I consider buying a 4670
Are there any known problems with quake and map editors especially Fitzquake/aglquake/QuArK ?

Or is Nvidia the better choice? 

Whenever the problems

"your map looks very very dark on my computer"

or

"the 3d view on WC3.3 doesnt work properly"

crop up, its always on an ATI.

Directx 10.1 though..... which you cant get with NVidia....

Personally I wouldnt mind a 4870, but if I was trying to make a budget system I would go for a 9800 GT (which is basically an 8800 GT with a new name)

Look at this chart:

http://www.guru3d.com/category/vga_charts_3dmark_vantage_06/ 

ATI seems to have the better hardware at the moment.
Can't put a 9800gt or 4870 in my computer. My PSU would collapse. Thats the problem and the 4670 is really fast an consumes very little power.

"your map looks very very dark on my computer"
Really ATI related? I think its the screen.
Maps on the family Pc with a CRT used to look really dark. And On my TFT usually gamma 1 is bright enough.
Both nvidia cards. 

what PSU have you got?
Im running an 8800 GTS on a 450w?

As for it being the screen which causes map to look dark on computers, I'm afraid not. Heres my evidence:

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60184&start=11&end=11

OK, so the links are dead, but the shots were of my level, and they looked dark on EVERYONES screen, so it cant have ust been the screen, if you see what I mean....

Anyway you are right, the ATI 4850 and '70 are doing pretty well at the moment, but if you look at the charts you will see that the 4670 is "OK", and I dont know how many frames-per-watt you will get compared to other cards, if you are really on a low PSU, but cards like the 9600 GT or GSO are faster, probably for a similar price....

but like I say, why ask if your just gonna argue with us? Just buy the damn 4670, I'm sure they're great! :-) 

Ok I belive you that the map looks too dark on ATI cards. And there are more than quake glitches that speak against ATI like glitchy Linux drivers. Was very pleased with my nvidia.

The GSO has a g92 and consumes much more power and is not really much faster than the 4670. The 9600gt may work but I'm not sure. Maybe I should just try it out.
The PSU is 350W 10a and 15a on the 12v rails though. 

I see your predicament with a 350w PSU....

http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?product_id=21425&category_id=646&manufacturer_id=0&tid=ocz500sxs

Maybe find an upgrade for that too.... ? 

Work fine for me in all versions of Quake that I care to play, works fine with Radiant, works fine with Hammer. (This is with Vista by the way, mileage may vary in other operating systems of course).

The sole problem I've had with Quake since switching to ATI cards was some display corruption in some versions that was fixed by setting gl_ztrick to 0.

Other than that, the main things I've noticed since switching from nvidia cards is better price/performance ratio, lower power consumption, more speed and stability, regular driver updates, better colour and "shit just working".

The one thing I miss from the nvida stuff is that they had more fully featured software (specifically management of dual monitors, they had some nifty features like shortcuts to swap windows between monitors and shit like that).

I had a 1950 pro and now the HD4870, very happy with both. Using ATI cards at work now too because I had some problems with Maya and our asset building tools using nvidia drivers which were magically fixed by swapping to an ATI card. 

Not trying to preach, just throwing it out there to counterbalance the anti-ATI stuff ;)

I don't have any problems with brightness in Quake or any game using default settings in both the driver control panel and the game options. As with everything else I've had far less problems (as in, basically none) with Quake than I had using nvidia stuff. 

You are on Linux (aren't you), you want nvidia. 

Like the 180.84 BETA driver which GTA tells you to install, and how it caused SYSTEM CRASH, LOSS of MOUSE and KEYBOARD!

I've never had any problems with their stable release though...

The only ATI card which I ever use is the X1300 in one of our work machines, which I think is fried, because I get some nasty distortions in Fitz and AGLQuake. But like I said, I think the card is a bit fried....

I must admit that unless NVidia bring in some cool features I will be converting to ATI next time I upgrade, because I want DirectX 10.1 - I like eye candy! And their anti-aliasing is unbeatable, from what I gather...

At the end of that day, I'm only really speaking from a gaming performance angle, it depends entirely what you want from a card.... 

that I say "I must admit" too much... 

Not sure about that, ATIs drivers improved a lot, open source and proprietary. There are still a lot of bug reports though.
Of course Nvidia has the better linux drivers at the moment.

By the way is it possible to use an onboard nvidia card in Linux and the pci-express card in windows? 

that Asus N10J netbook I bought for my girfreind for Christmas has switachble graphics - Intel GMA for long batterly life, and NVidia 9300 GS for gaming/performance. There's a button on the side to switch between the two. You then have to re-boot.

So there must be a way of doing it in a PC, just dont ask me how. 

Like the 180.84 BETA driver which GTA tells you to install, and how it caused SYSTEM CRASH, LOSS of MOUSE and KEYBOARD!

Just minor inconvenient side-effects then, no big deal. Reminds me of the anti-malarials i once took a course of: I read the booklet and was excited to see many hundreds of possible terrible side-effects, one of which being actual malaria. Well great. 

his stomach pumped or something, and ended up loosing both of his legs to MRSA... 

> By the way is it possible to use an onboard nvidia
> card in Linux and the pci-express card in windows

It appears so (as long as your bios supported it as some trashy bioses may automatically disable onboard video if another video card is found), but it mightn't be easy. You'd have to configure dual monitors under linux, and only use the onboard nvidia.

http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxAndDualMonitors.html

It ~may~ also be an anlternative to enter bios between OS reboots and switch primary video.