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Posted by Shambler on 2017/11/14 21:26:44 |
Wonder If A Specific Retro-shooter Thread Is Warranted?
#10166 posted by Shambler [92.29.26.135] on 2017/08/27 11:32:00
It is! Separate thread because there's a lot of these sort of games, the ethos of them is particularly relevant to this board, and it's inhabitants seem to have some good varying opinions on the matter.
Quake as the eptiome as 90s action FPS:
Very direct control and physics
Simple streamlined gameplay
Brutal visceral and gory
Weird fantasy / gothic / industrial theme
Grungy, coherent graphics
Cool map designs / architecture (for the time)
Varied but consistent bestiary
Etc
(many of the above adhered to and greatly enhanced by subsequent custom content)
We all like these aspects, we all like these aspects in other games, we all want to see more of those games, possibly combined with modern graphical styles (Quake Chumpions MAPS might be an example of how far this could go) and maybe very limited modern additions (crouching? an inventory? coherent story? - but nothing that gets in the way of solid action). We perhaps want the next Quake / 90s action FPS spiritual successor...
Modern Retro Shooters:
...and lo, there's a neverending stream of modern retro games many of which are unabashedly marketting themselves as 90s action FPS spiritual successors and particularly highlighting speed, direct control, simple action, limitless violence. Do they have what it takes to hit that mark though??
Strafe
http://store.steampowered.com/app/442780/STRAFE_Millennium_Edition/
Amid Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo7X7b6pPng
Dusk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsu9uDMlIMM
Hellbound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyabhVn1SfQ
Apocryph
http://store.steampowered.com/app/596240/Apocryph_an_oldschool_shooter/
Ion Maiden
https://twitter.com/voidpnt
Neverdead
http://store.steampowered.com/app/681000/NEVRDEAD/
Gorescript
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpZ1Wa0OIoQ
Intrude
https://bagogames.com/intrude-review/
Hermodr
http://store.steampowered.com/app/490360/Hermodr/
Devil Daggers
http://store.steampowered.com/app/422970/Devil_Daggers/
Gibhard
http://www.gibhard.com
Revulsion
http://store.steampowered.com/app/719180/Revulsion/
Witchfire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zqjNkdXT94
PLUS MANY MORE LINKED IN THE THREAD BELOW....
Without wanting to opine too much, there seems to be a general trend of possibly not hitting the mark despite some attempts to do so, with a huge variety in how much potential those attempts show, as well as how close these games are to realising the overall harmonious game quality of a typical best 90s action FPS. I.e. Some games seem to do some aspects right, but don't seem to get all the aspects in balance and appealing together.
Discuss.... |
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#426 posted by Cocerello on 2020/10/22 19:48:50
So far what is best are the looks, in the parts of consistency, lighting and texturing.
About Graven, it feels very good and solid but i am worried about the gameplay being too repetitive, and for the same reason, about the breakables. There is not that much variety on encounters and enemy types for now and from what we see in the video, while there is several ways to deal with enemies it feels to me that some option are a lot more useful than the others. The good part regarding this is that it isn't just kill'em all. It would not feel right that kind of gameplay with this game's atmosphere.
While I'm Checking Stuff Out.
#427 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/24 22:44:41
Hellbound demo playthrough:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua8QokD57uo
Hellbound is a hardcore '90s-inspired shooter for "true warriors" apparently.
#427
#428 posted by Cocerello on 2020/10/25 13:28:47
Well, it is not much good yet but it is a big improvement from the last video i have watched about it. Now it has proper progression even if it has issues on guiding the player, some layout, even if very simple and still horizontal (maybe for a console port?). The sounds are Ok, save maybe the jumping one which becomes a bit annoying. The machine gun is quite redundant and i am worried about all the sniping opportunities it can bring together with the first shooting weapon.
I like that the lobbing guys keep lobbing even if they cannot see but can hit you.
I am of the same opinion as the video about the damage being probably too high.
ULTRAKILL
#429 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/26 09:20:11
Ultrakill is billed as "Quake meets Doom2016 meets Devil May Care" .
It gets overwhelmingly positive reviews on Steam.
This sounds just like the retro FPS we've been waiting for.
It has a demo available. I played it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNFMEVe4wVc
New Blood should be banned from using the word Quake.
Ultrakill
#431 posted by Cocerello on 2020/10/26 18:07:13
it is hard to see the resemblance with Quake and Doom 4, specially the first. I would compare it with Devil's Daggers with a layout, while keeping it arcade-like. In this regards it would be decent to good if it had more enemies and variety on encounters.
#432 posted by metlslime on 2020/10/26 18:17:04
I feel like the first level is not a good demo for these last few games, if the entire level is spent teaching you how to melee boxes and crouch/dash and you get like a single pistol and can shoot the most boring enemy type for the majority of the level. Maybe they should grab like level 3 or 4 where it (presumably) opens up to more interesting layouts, more weapons, and more varied enemy types.
#430
#433 posted by Cocerello on 2020/10/26 18:31:11
Almost every one of these new games should. They should use Wolfenstein 3d, Blood or Serious Sam Second Encounter as references instead.
Metl.
#434 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/26 19:43:57
There is that, but then look at the first levels of, errr, retro FPSes like Quake and Quake 2. Basic weapons, limited enemy types, and design / architecture / theme / atmosphere / exploration wise that would piss all over the last few games from such a great height it would leave dents in the typical New Blood shill's brainless head.
Ultrakill has a minimum introduction, 2 weapons with alt-fire and upgrades, 3 different enemies, 2 bosses, and an aesthetic tone that gets me hurrying to be underneath the piss waterfall so it can wash my retinas back to normal.
But, On The Other Hand.
#435 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/26 19:47:33
Gloomwood demo.
Texture fidelity that makes Id1 look refined. Engine quality that makes Quakespasm look like Frostbite. Character and weapon models that barely deserve the term model...
...and yet it has a sense of place, atmosphere, and purposeful theme to it than warrants a place at the top the pissfall for design alone. If you can cope with the engine and model limitations (I probably can't), this demo really sets a good tone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcFfnHrtNxU
The Relentless Quality Of Modern Retro FPSes Keeps Coming...
#436 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/27 18:53:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJVH8Ft5d5M A short one thing. Arguably not short enough.
Is It
#437 posted by Cocerello on 2020/10/27 22:02:58
not really a Quake mod or TC? It looks 100% like one, even the assets.
As a mod as it says in the video it would be decent to good, with some fixes to the AI.
Also, could you provide a link for it? I cannot find a single thing, neither as a mod or as a commercial videogame.
HROT
#438 posted by metlslime on 2020/10/27 22:52:27
really looks like a Quake TC with a custom engine.
As rough as the graphics and audio are, I would rather play these quake-inspired maps than the wolf3d-inspired maps from your other recent videos. There are actual outdoor areas with room to circle strafe instead of endless linear box corridors everywhere.
and the steam page says they have "flushable toilets"
HROT definitely requires a certain sensibility to the "eastern bloc oppressiveness" vibes.
The original Quake has a similar appeal, in a way I am unable to describe.
Coce.
#440 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/28 13:14:48
Google HROT?
Also re: Queak inspiration, watch the last 20 seconds of the vid....
#440
#441 posted by Cocerello on 2020/10/28 17:47:36
Did it, and found nothing, because in the video it is written HORT, not HROT. With Hrot it is easy.
#442 posted by Cocerello on 2020/10/28 17:50:08
Queak inspiration, watch the last 20 seconds of the vid....
Yeah, the looks are different from iD maps, but the textures look 100% percent that they come from a Quake custom map. More than inspired, copied from a .wad found somewhere.
Okay So....
#443 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/28 21:59:37
https://youtu.be/1v_X2v255W0
RetroFPS REAL TALK and final Ultrashill thoughts. I'm done with this for now.
@Shambler
#444 posted by Tribal on 2020/10/28 22:38:00
My two cents about retro games in 2020:
3D Realms is doing a great job with Wrath, Graven and Ion Fury. Recruiting veteran mappers to do what they do best.
New Blood, apart from Gloomwood (made by a veteran Thief custom-mapper), all other games in their catalog feels more like a satire of old-school games, they remind me of those joke-wads from Doom community. I don't like it.
#445 posted by ws on 2020/10/29 08:50:42
Gloomwood looks cool. More like a Thief-style stealth game than a true FPS. But it's surprising the janky model/animation quality doesnt seem to have improved at all since Dusk. I know its still a one-man or at least very limited team, but you'd think they could hire or commission a modeler with the money from Dusk.
Tribal.
#446 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/29 13:27:31
Ion Fury....I wouldn't get on with the build engine and sprites, but definitely got a strong theme and purpose.
This...
New Blood, apart from Gloomwood (made by a veteran Thief custom-mapper), all other games in their catalog feels more like a satire of old-school games, they remind me of those joke-wads from Doom community. I don't like it.
...is spot on too. I got the same feeling scrolling through 90% of the Realms Deep stuff on Steam.
Finally For Now.
#447 posted by Shambler on 2020/10/29 13:28:52
A request please:
If anyone does find any properly good / inspiring retro FPSes that are of the ilk that Tribal listed above, please do still link them with shots and gameplay footage etc. The concept is still valid... Thanks.
@Shambler
#448 posted by fw on 2020/11/01 18:43:20
If you're looking to get really fucking mad, look up Effigy, Endless Hunger and Perilous Warp. Utter fucking tart that people DROOL over, it makes me seriously wonder what these people get out of these games. Do they just hear buzzwords and dribble out a gleeful response? It's baffling.
See Above For Perilous Warp
#449 posted by Shambler on 2020/11/01 18:50:58
And see further down the Effigy comments list....
Effigy
#450 posted by Cocerello on 2020/11/01 19:42:25
let's hope it is an alpha and the brushwork simple blockout and not something which seems to be even worse than Dusk. Also, i think someone linked a video to it here before.
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