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Posted by SleepwalkR on 2012/03/14 17:58:44 |
Hi everyone,
after two years of work, I am releasing the first beta of my Quake editor for Mac OS X, TrenchBroom. It is the result of an experiment where I tried to find out how Quake editing would be like if you could do it directly in the engine - that is, in 3D only. Consequently, TrenchBroom has only one big 3D view and an inspector (which you can hide anytime).
Go to kristianduske.com/trenchbroom for a screenshot and downloads.
Some highlights:
- renders even large maps smoothly
- support brush and alias models in the 3D view
- create new entities by drag and drop
- create, move, rotate, and resize brushes with the mouse
- clip brushes using the smart 3 point clipping tool
- create new vertices by splitting edges and faces or merge two neighboring vertices
- move vertices, edge and faces without creating invalid geometry
- texture lock that also works for rotations
- prefabs
- brush groups
- builtin compilation tools (TxQBSP, MH's light version, Willem's vis version)
- autosave, since this is a beta and all
Thanks to Bengt Jardrup, MH and Willem for their compilers and to Gom Jabbar and Vigil and other #tf guys for feedback.
Okay, that's it for now. I hope there are some people who will find some use for this. I'd certainly appreciate it if you reported any bugs, problems or feedbacks to me either here or via email to kristian.duske@gmail.com. |
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Ozkan
I would greatly prefer doing it in C, but I think that polymorphism could make adding support for other games easier.
Spirit
So you can see when it gets updated?
#21 posted by necros on 2012/03/14 22:48:34
can't use this on 10.5.8? (intel)
Necros
No, it's 10.6 only for now as it uses some features that are available only in 10.6. I'll put 10.5 support on the to-do list.
#23 posted by necros on 2012/03/14 22:56:25
well, don't do it on my account only if it's a lot of trouble.
my mac isn't really good enough that i'd want to use it as a primary mapping device (it's a 4 year old laptop).
but i was mostly intrigued with the 3d only mapping.
i have a tendancy to maximize the 3d viewport in sikkpin's QE3 a lot these days when working on complex organic stuff so i was interested in seeing that mapping style done 'properly'.
Necros
I'll look into it anyway ;-)
First Time I Wish I Owned A Mac
#25 posted by jt_ on 2012/03/15 02:02:11
Looks good SleepwalkR.
Lol!
#26 posted by Tronyn on 2012/03/15 04:04:09
lol Spirit.
I am only now learning how intense the "archiver's impulse" really is. It's extremely useful: hell without it, we wouldn't have classic literature. So props.
SleepwalkR: uhh, holy shit man. Awesome. Great idea with no 2d views as well. It should lead to less blockish/halls&rooms Quake maps (damn that first shot of Necros' map is a great example too).
Thanks!
It looks totally amazing. And i'm impressed with your "3D only" design goal.
Sleepwalkr
#29 posted by Spirit on 2012/03/15 09:59:34
for archival purposes / finding old versions. with this naming scheme you can only provide one version and it is going to be multiple versions (yay, confusion). old versions can be useful sometimes.
Okay
Will do that once there's a new version.
Looks Great
#31 posted by than on 2012/03/15 13:11:42
Will probably give it a try on my gfs mac at the weekend. No chance of a windows or linux port?
IPad++
#32 posted by generic on 2012/03/15 13:14:50
An iPad version would be awesome!
Than
There will be ports to other platforms, but it will take time because I need to port significant parts from Objective-C to plain C.
Another +1
#34 posted by sock on 2012/03/15 15:47:32
For a IPad version, I want to make Quake stuff on planes! :)
#35 posted by mindabuse on 2012/03/15 15:52:00
Great work! The camera-only editing approach reminds me of an old level editor for DOS called GEOMETRY by Billy Zelsnack (anyone remember Prax War 2018? ;). I use to live by GEOMETRY for mapping. It took me a long time to switch to a Windows editor because I was so resistant to giving up DOS back in those days.
QUAKE editing/mapping/modding (and more generally id Tech) is a difficult thing to do outside of Windows. I'm an old schooler that has converted to using Mac's.
I've been fascinated with editing on the Mac because QUAKE was originally developed on NeXTSTEP (precursor to Mac OS X).
Oddly enough, I wanted to learn the proper ins and outs of programming and decided to try to get a QUAKE editor ported to Mac OS X -- starting with the original NeXTSTEP QuakeEd sources and eventually mixing various code bases (QE3/QE4/QE5, Radiant, etc). No intention to steal any thunder from SleepwalkR and TrenchBroom, so I'll save my editor banter for another thread at some point.
Some random questions for SleepwalkR:
How are you loading textures? I couldn't get my WADs to load, but that might be because I created them with qlumpy (which I think uses a different miptex format than what typically gets extracted from BSP files).
Did you build TrenchBroom from scratch or use anything as a starting point?
Is the "back end" code (rendering, core editing) Objective-C or C?
Any thoughts about open source?
My years of using QuakeEd/Radiant make me really resistant to different keyboard shortcuts. Thought about allowing people to customize the keyboard shortcuts?
I've tinkered with Willems ToeTag and I'm really happy to see TrenchBroom (and any other QUAKE editing/apps) being developed for Mac OS X!
Answers For Mindabuse
How are you loading textures? I load them directly from the wad files. I used these docs as a reference.
Did you build TrenchBroom from scratch or use anything as a starting point? It's from scratch. I purposefully did not use existing code because I wanted to approach problems with original ideas.
Is the "back end" code (rendering, core editing) Objective-C or C? Currently it's a mix of Objective-C and C. Math functions and performance-heavy code is pure C, but the rest is Objective-C. I plan to reduce Objective-C to an absolute minimum because it's slow and not easily portable.
Any thoughts on open source? Yeah, the source will be published under the GPLv3.
Thoughts about allowing people to customize the keyboard shortcuts? I am torn about this. On the one hand, I can totally understand that you would want to customize the shortcuts so that it matches your habits. On the other hand, I have kind of a daddy-knows-best approach. Apple doesn't let you customize keyboard shortcuts either, and for a reason: They have put a lot of thought into how the user interacts with their apps, and the same goes for TrenchBroom. That said, if you have suggestions or find the keyboard layout idiotic, I'm all ears. It's important for me to allow the users to edit maps quickly and efficiently, so if you think that I should approach it differently, then be sure to let me know.
That, and getting keyboard / mouse customization right is difficult. In summary: it may eventually happen, but it's not very high on my list right now.
#37 posted by JneeraZ on 2012/03/15 16:25:13
I am torn about this. On the one hand, I can totally understand that you would want to customize the shortcuts so that it matches your habits. On the other hand, I have kind of a daddy-knows-best approach. Apple doesn't let you customize keyboard shortcuts either, and for a reason: They have put a lot of thought into how the user interacts with their apps, and the same goes for TrenchBroom.
Has daddy made a lot of maps? Because sometimes programmers THINK they know what's best for users but are often wrong.
I don't actually know your history so I apologize if I'm uninformed. :)
Daddy Has Made A Couple Of Maps ;-)
I used to do a lot of mapping back in the day, and the main reason for writing this editor is to have an editor that works the way I want it to. That, and I used it as an exercise to learn more about Cocoa, C and graphics programming.
But I do agree with the fact that programmers tend to misunderstand the needs of users, which is why I said that I'm very open to suggestions.
#39 posted by JneeraZ on 2012/03/15 16:46:44
Oh, OK, awesome! Yeah, that's what people really liked when I was actively working on UnrealEd here ... the fact that I was also a level designer meant that I "got it" when users requested features and would implement them the right way.
Microsoft used to call it "eating your own dog food". If you have to eat it, you're going to make sure it tastes good. :)
Yeah, I Agree
Also, for a hobby project, I have found that if you don't have a use for an application yourself, you won't keep the motivation. I have worked on this thing for two years, mostly late in the evening and during my holidays, and I'm sure I wouldn't have come so far if I didn't have the motivation of making a tool for myself to use.
So, I'm really looking forward to getting actual hands-on feedback! Btw, the more I think about it, the more am I inclined to make the ports to other projects the highest item on my to-do list, because the group of Quake mappers who use a Mac is quite small...
So
#41 posted by ijed on 2012/03/15 18:24:14
Time to buy a mac?
Or can I emulate this somehow? Wine?
Apprently Not With Wine...
#42 posted by ijed on 2012/03/15 18:26:24
Congrats on the release :)
Looks Awesome
#43 posted by ericw on 2012/03/15 19:29:54
yeah, congrats. :-) Will play with it as soon as I get a minute.
re: porting, I know I failed to deliver on this with Willem's editor, but it could be worth trying gnustep (or there's also cocotron, which i haven't tried) to do a windows/linux port. i'd be happy to look into it if you want.
mindabuse: cool, was this yours? http://code.google.com/p/quakeed-macosx/ (dead link.)
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