Oh fuck yes, how did I manage to forget about this. When I was playing Doom3 for the first time on a slow PC, the shaking screen and the enormous "slash marks" on my screen made me die many many times just because I couldn't aim worth shit with my screen going completely bananas. When I later discovered the console commands for toning that shit down it made the game a lot more enjoyable.

Actually UT3 suffers from the same problem, with default configuration, the damage feedback is way too excessive and when you are playing againt people who aren't completely retarded, you can pretty much give up as soon as someone starts hitting you with the Link Gun altfire, just because your screen will be too fucked up for you to be able to fight back. Thankfully, UT3 also allows near-complete removal of this bullshit via editing of the .ini configuration files.

Whats this stupid trend all about anyway? 

I assume Rage isn't erased, just that id is doing both games at the same time, which is fine.

I also assume that Doom4 will be more of the same with better graphics, while Rage seems to be a new direction for id (but I don't like the direction.)

For both games, we can expect post-apocalyptic themes with pretty generic, yet super polished, details (pipes, crates, etc.)

If they ever did a proper Quake 1 sequel (Castle Shambler mod for Doom3 came pretty close to what I'd imagine it'd be like) I might get a teensy-bit excited. But right now, there's no reason to be based solely off an announcement. 

In my opinion, Doom4 should be exactly 1 level long; a large empty box, with 50 rocket launchers in it, and the Spider Mastermind. 

...Who didn't find it that dark? I mean it was definitely dark, but almost never did it matter, as rarely was there a monster in it (when there was, it was a zombie - illuminate them with the flashlight, put your reticle on their head, switch to pistol, click twice, move on). The only times I saw particularly dark areas, they gave you some form of light (a light source to follow, or one of those oddly adorable spider robots).

Thank you, that was exactly what I was about to say. I found that the darkness interfered with the combat a grand total of one time for me - where you meet a revenant at close quarters coming down the stairs in a small dark room. Can't remember which level it was on. The only other times they mixed darkness with combat was, as you say, using slow zombies that gave you ample time to target, switch to gun, then shoot.

That section in Half-Life Episode 1 where you are stuck in a pitch black room waiting for an elevator and there are fast zombies and zombine continually spawning and throwing grenades at you and your fucking flashlight keeps running out was a million times more annoying than any time Doom 3 mixed darkness and combat.

And just before I get lynched for defending it, I just want to make it clear that I agree we don't need that sort of darkness in Doom 4. It's been done.

Everyone else complains about blur and owl-neck damage feedback, and I can sort of see where they're coming from, but at the end of the day the combat was so godpiss easy anyway that I was never bothered by it.

Personally, I'd like to see better weapon feedback (the machinegun and rocket launcher in particular felt really flimsy and fake). I'd like them to ditch the utterly retarded 80s-heavy-metal-tshirt visual design that some of the enemies had (lost souls, revenants etc.) Also, zombies are boring and don't interest me. While they're at it, let's get some variation in the environments, and some nice outdoor areas please, with no stupid oxygen depletion bullshit.

And of course do Hell properly, i.e. don't just do one level consisting of a string of small rooms, each with a lame scripted sequence showing some stones moving around. Hell can look beautiful yet incredibly sorrowful at the same time - just look at any of Beksinski's work.

Please. drop the shitty 13-year-old-Iron-Maiden-fan version of hell with fleshy anus-tubes and goat horns sticking randomly out of brick walls. It's crap. 

Isn't your point of view a little bit simplistic ?
;P 

at section in Half-Life Episode 1 where you are stuck in a pitch black room waiting for an elevator and there are fast zombies and zombine


ha. that was incredibly BAD
worst design in any HL and one of worst in any game ever. Cause there is that dumb NPC - alyx - which you need to babysit in that freaking darkness. and she kept on dying

darkness on its own is not the worst thing about d3, its the overall combination of all the effects that obscure your view 

Alyx died? She's invulnerable is she not? 

I thought that part of episode 1 was fantastic. Probably the most frenetic and suspenseful part of the game, definitely a highlight that I remember. 

she died on me once in city 17. it was game over (as if the player had died). and i agree with zwiffle, i fucking loved that part =) 

RE: excessive damage feedback.

Whats this stupid trend all about anyway?

Dunno, but on a related note, in addition to yanking your view around with every little movement, I hope they don't get onboard this recent obsession with fucking with your FOV every time you do something other than stand still.

Every time I see a trailer for the latest generic FPS, I see them trying to outdo each other by making your FOV fishbowl all over the place when you run, or shrink when you take damage or shoot your gun. The problem is that when you are moving at a constant speed but your FOV changes, you get this horrible car-sickness inducing "crazy-mirrors" effect where the natural effect of the scenery approaching clashes with the changing FOV and everything goes all sort of wibbly-wobbly. Can't stand it, and it is not realistic in any way, unlike say, viewbob - which I can tolerate. 

I just can't. Anytime id software announce anything I get giddy like a schoolgirl.

I thought doom 3 was pretty disappointing though. And I don't know how they could go in much of a different direction for this...

I'm not a fan of the demonic style. It worked in the original doom because it was a lot more cartoony, but in a realistic, serious game, no thanks. For me, Lovecraftyness in games = scary, general creepy weirdness a la Silent Hill = scary, demonic goats heads and fire and brimstone = not scary at all.

The atmosphere was great in Doom 3 despite that though, probably because of the lighting.

I'm guessing in Doom 4 they're going to do all the things they couldn't do technically at the time of doom 3, like having more than a few lights, more than a few monsters in a room, proper outdoor areas and all that. Hopefully they'll take it a bit further though. 

http://quotes.fov120.com/?show=single&quote=71755 

Also, I just realised this is being developed "in-house". That really surprises me. I wonder for what reason they have decided to dredge up a stale franchise and do it in-house rather than sponge it off to some other developer like they always do with anything that's not their primary project....? 

I agree with starbuck's point.

Cheesy EVIL WITH LAVA AND SKULLS worked fine for the original Doom, and it worked fine in Quake3 (Temple of Retribution, for example). It's only when they tried to put that style in a "realistic" setting, like in Doom3, that it bogged down.

Some of the flesh parts were cool, but Doom3's hell was crap.

I think the whole problem with a hellish environment, is that it can never be as scary as areas with _hints_ of hell. Still, they should have had at least 10 maps in Hell, and just not tried to take it so seriously. Q3 style would have been fine.

It would have been kinda cool if they tried to do something based on Dante. It might be cheesy, but if done right all those tortures WOULD get disturbing. 

Maybe that's the hook. Maybe they're getting excited about doing Doom 4 because it's going to be the anti-Doom3 - i.e. it mostly takes place in Hell, and the human environments are secondary this time.

One can only hope. 

Doom 4: Hell on Earth 

Maybe that's the hook. Maybe they're getting excited about doing Doom 4 because it's going to be the anti-Doom3

The Id crew knows that Doom3 was a let down, and it is probably a sore spot for them until a proper version of the game can be done.

Doom 3 has been analyzed to death by all of us but for me it comes down to factors: The first several hours of game play scared the living shit out of me, and after those first few hours, it became too repetitive to thrill. I spent at least the last half of playing it just trying to get though with the game.

I hope they do get rid of most of the story element, but not all of it. Get rid of the cartoon villains that snicker and fold their hands together menacingly. Keep that aspect ambiguous and hallucinogenic, and therefore more real like a really bad day at the office.

The way I would approach story line would be to make it not too relevant to actually solving the game, but at the same time, if the player is the exploring type who has to know and see everything, he can uncover the underlying threads that would remain hidden if he were to take an approach that was more action oriented. Doom meets Lost. 

I vote you to lead Doom 4!

I just checked out that Beksinski guy and his work is amazing. If id made hell look more like that or Giger's Shaft cartoons I would fucking cum. Whatever though, they need more mature art direction this time around.

http://www.gnosis.art.pl/iluminatornia/sztuka_o_inspiracji/zdzislaw_beksinski/zdzislaw_beksinski.htm

http://www.beksinski.pl/ 

That was an immersive game. I dont think the narrative quite worked as well as it could have, but the gameplay was pretty scary. I think it would suit a doom style game. The RPG elements would help add an extra level of sophistication. Stalker is another example. The feeling of having to constantly maximise your resourcefullness adds to the tension.

I would also like Doom 4 to be a little faster. Faster enemies, faster movement for the player please. Just a little faster. 

game leads not level designers.
Inspirations:

Doom 4: Hell in Hell

Doom 4: Bad Day at the Office

Doom 4: Hell at the Bottom of an Ocean

Doom 4: Hell in a Temple at the Top of a Mountain

Doom 4: Hell on Venus (as opposed to Phobos, Earth and Maahs (tm) ) Think of city in the clouds... 

doom3 was ok. awesome tech, but meh gameplay (for me). what it needs/needed is/was more hell levels!!!

but is id now two teams? what bout rage? and why not a brand new game, instead of a brand new sequel? 

The Id crew knows that Doom3 was a let down, and it is probably a sore spot for them until a proper version of the game can be done.
lol what? best-selling game. They are fucking proud of it despite all the shortcomings (and what game doesnt have any?)
And if you watch Tim Willits vid, he even speaks positively about the Team Arena

than: ID has Nunuk. but I reckon he`s on Rage :P hence rage>d4 (stale franchise hahaha)

and bioshock is worse than doom3 (yeah flame on)
and frankly speaking nothing is scary when you have a gun. and quickload

<Friction> "in doom 2 the guy always wears a space helmet even though hes on earth"
"in doom 3 he never wears a space helmet even though hes on mars"
mind: blown

<Friction> Doom IV: Hell in Earth's Sewer System

Corporal Dean Portman: [looks down the sewer hole] I thought "being in the shit" was a figure of speech. (Doom movie) 

"bioshock is worse than doom3"

I'm trying to respect your opinions here but you're making it difficult. 

I didnt like how it looked, played and felt. wait 'didnt like' is not the right way to say it. I couldnt stand it! And nevermind that its a huge step back from systemshock

god knows I tried to like it. whole 3 times.
I couldnt drag myself past the second chapter (where you start to deal with the wee girls) 

I can respect your opinion.

I just think that the way that the actuall environment becomes incorporated into the plot is something which a modern shooter like Doom 4 should aspire to.

Like for example the part with the arty fella you have to kill, the one with the theatre. Rather that just being room-corridor -room-corridor, you have to carry out the tasks within the environment, with this guys unpredictable character controlling what happens.

Its pretty immersive.

I've never played System Shock so I cant comment on that :D