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| Posted by Tronyn on 2003/08/05 18:10:29 |
I thought Lovecraft would make a good topic for discussion here, since I'm sure the ratio of Lovecraft readers here is much higher than average. Discuss Lovecraft's ideas/philosophy, and also works of art/music/literature which attempt to capture Lovecraft's vision and whether they succeed or fail.
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Lovecraftian literature:
I've read the following compilations of work written in imitation of Lovecraft:
"The Disciples of Cthulu":
This contains a mixed bag. There are two incredible stories: The Terror From the Depths by Fritz Leiber and Darkness, My Name Is by Eddy C. Burglund (or some last name like that). Particularly the latter is amazing. The rest are either half-decent or abysmal.
"Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos":
A recent collection that pretty much stinks. There was one story that qualified as interesting; the rest were garbage.
"The Children of Cthulu" is another compilation that I saw for sale, but it looked so trashy that I didn't even pick it up.
I've also read "The Burrowers Beneath" by Brian Lumley, and "The Transition of Titus Crow" which follows upon it. The first book is quite good, Lumley's concept for a new type of Lovecraftian monster that inhabits the earth's core is very original and very cool. However, about 3/4 of the way through the first book, it starts to suck: it becomes like Lovecraft meets Tom Clancy's Rainbow 6, and that just sucks. An elite team of Cthulu monster eliminating specialists? BAH!!!!
The entire second book is so far over the top that, despite having some interesting ideas and being written well, it is just ridiculous. "Transition" is like Lovecraft meets H.G. Wells - something else so inappropriate it could never work.
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Lovecraftian films:
Everyone probably agrees that John Carpenter's "The Thing" both is Lovecraftian and kicks much ass. But don't even get me started on how lame it is of id to rip monsters from that film for Doom3. "In The Mouth Of Madness" by the same director crosses Lovecraft's ideas with some Steven King style stuff, and it works out quite well. The movie is extremely, extremely over-the-top.
"Dagon" is a recent adaptation of Shadow Over Innsmouth, and is not horrible, but fails to capture the disturbingness of the story properly.
I've heard someone call the movie "Pi" Lovecraftian, and that could work on some level, but not a literal one.
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Lovecraftian music:
There's always "The Thing That Should Not Be" back from the classic Metallica days, as well as "The Call of the Ktulu" by the same group from the same period. Both are very good.
Fields of the Nephilim apparently have a lot of Lovecraftian references in their music, but their inclusion of Sumerian mythology suggests perhaps they were suckers for the hoaxed Necronomicon which stated that Lovecraft's mythos was an adaptation of Sumerian mythology.
And in one song by Joy Division:
"An abyss that laughs at creation
A circus complete with all fools
Foundations that lasted the ages
Then ripped apart at their roots
Beyond all this good is the terror
The grip of a mercenary hand
When savagery turns for good reason
There's no turning back, no last stand"
That's probably enough blabbing by me for now, I'm sure others will have plenty to say.
-Tronyn
PS: Also, last time I was at the bookstore I noticed that Penguin Classics had issued a book in their series entitled "The Call of Cthulu and Other Stories" by H.P. Lovecraft. Imagine Lovecraft finally being accepted as a canonical writer, alongside the likes of Dostoyevsky and other "real" and respected authors. Perhaps English profs won't be able to sneer so confidently at his work now... |
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Wow #26 posted by Tronyn on 2003/08/13 14:59:17
that image is hilarious.
Kell:
As for Fields, I happen to like their music a lot. But perhaps I was treading on holy ground by suggesting their inspiration from the hoaxed Necronomicon was less than entirely valid. I see that you are more quickly offended by this than I would have expected, but then again since Fields appear to be the one band that is very central to you, it's probably similar to what I would think if someone attempted to call Joy Division insincere.
Anyway, I am perfectly aware of what Lovecraft's mythos represents and what his intentions were, and I didn't think that his ideas were based on anything previously existing beforehand. I am well aware of parallels between his work and other mythologies, especially hindiusm, some of which are discussed by him in his essays and even sometimes referenced in his stories. Also, I don'y think I need any lecturing on how recent good/evil dualism concepts are.
The point is, defend Fields as much as you like (and thank you for clarifying their intent to draw their own parallels, rather than taking hoaxed parallels for granted), but aside from that clarification I was well aware of the rest of the information that you stated.
Mmm #27 posted by R.P.G. on 2003/08/13 15:22:41 ...I was well aware of the rest of the information that you stated.
I, on the other hand, was not.
My Solution: kell and tronyn collaborate on a huge Q1SP lovecraft tribute level.
After all, they are two of the best Quake 1 mappers around. =)
Tronyn #29 posted by Kell on 2003/08/13 17:39:19 Fair enough, mate. I try very hard not to be precious about the Neph, but they have an even bigger impact on me than Quake ( gasp ). The main reason I relate to them so much is because they are genuine...they mean every note, lyric and image 100% and that's a very rare thing. I mean, I must be the biggest Aliens fan left on the planet, but I'm also the first ( and often the second, third and fourth ) to acknowledge the flaws and inconsistencies in the saga. One of the commonest misconceptions that narks me the most is the interpretaion of the pentagram as an exclusively satanic symbol. It's not. That's not a matter of personal interpretation, it's mathematical fact. But that doesn't stop id software slapping 666 all over their games or poorly-informed neopagans debating the issue in pubs and forums.
Anyhow, no hard feelings I hope.
UWF -
Tronyn did try to get me involved in such a Q1SP epic, but tbh I'm not sure I'm up to it anymore.
Maybe I am.
I need a smoke.
Shine On Through My Silent Thought Again... http://www.gizmology.net/lovecraft/
I also think Daniel Z. ...um... Whatshisface's House of Leaves is Lovecrafty in its style. (No, I'm not talking about the typesetting trickery.)
Yeah #31 posted by Tronyn on 2003/08/14 03:32:47
no hard feelings, don't worry about it. I know what you mean, there is a lot of misinformation and general crap floating about in the esoteric realms as it were :)
I can see why my suggestion would have offended you now, hehe. My apologies.
As for the Lovecraft Q1SP epic, there was a time a while ago when I actually thought glassman, myself, and several others (I think tyrann as well) were going to do one, with help from kell. But it fell through. Truth be told I'm not sure if I really *can* Q1SP map anymore, because although I would like to and do try, I find that first I'm far too into Wc3.3 to use WC1.6a anymore, which creates tons of problems, and also everything I create ends up being so massive and detailed that the engine can't handle it.
Indeed... #32 posted by distrans on 2003/08/14 04:27:21 there is a lot of misinformation and general crap floating about in the esoteric realms
As "demonstrated" artfully by Umberto Eco in Foucault's Pendulum.
Tronyn #33 posted by R.P.G. on 2003/08/14 13:58:13 You do realize that you can use WC3.3 to map for Q1, don't you?
And #34 posted by Kell on 2003/08/14 15:04:37 you can use GtkRadiant too.
Yeah #35 posted by Tronyn on 2003/08/14 19:40:53
yes you can, but there are a lot of problems.
foremost among them is texture alignment Anyway, it's essentially a matter of the amount of hassle, which is large.
#36 posted by Kell on 2003/08/16 12:55:31
Penny Arcade. nice.
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