yeah, since the controls are much worse, we make the game easier, and thus, problem is solved.

Eh?

How about making the game about pushing just one button in rhythm. That way you can play it lying on the sofa with one eye open. 

I played Gears of War (1) on my xbox, heh - Quake4 (360), Doom3 (xbox), COD4 (yippee - split screen deathmatch!), Halo/2/3 (also yippee!), er Bioshock, Orange Box...

I do like the control system in Gears particularly...

But playing Crysis and STALKER, UT3, HL2DM etc on my PC - for starters I love the picture I get on a 15" cr8 @ 1280x1024, and secondly I came up playing Blood, Quake, Doom, Jedi Knight2, Duke3D, Quake2/3, AVP (what a hell of a game that was!!!!) etc etc etc on my beloved PC...

It's a hard call to make I suppose, from a user's perspective. I can get along with both. I believe that my PC has more potential for graphical prowess (when it comes to sheers specifications/eye candy) than either the 360 or the PS3 does.

I dunno - I just want to play cool games! I really hope Aliens: CM comes out on the PC. A lot of that is to do with having played AVP on a PC, and like you say - you can do flick 180 turns etc.

Also online deathmatch really wouldn't cut it for me on a control pad, I mean no flick 180 turns ?!?! No pixel perfect aiming ?!?!? It would be like having sex for hours but no orgasm.

I dunno tho - Halo, Gears - definately happy playing SP on a console... 

"yeah, since the controls are much worse, we make the game easier, and thus, problem is solved. "

Nah, it's not like that. You design for what the hardware is. PC shooters play like they do because of the mega accuracy of the mouse. Console shooters play differently - not necessarily easier, just differently.

"It would be like having sex for hours but no orgasm. "

That sounds pretty good to me. Where do I sign up? Orgasm means it's over, dude. :) 

and I love the accuracy and the movement. You can pull amazing moves every now and then. 

How about making the game about pushing just one button in rhythm. That way you can play it lying on the sofa with one eye open.

Guitar Hero?

But I disagree with the idea that you have less control with consoles, you can still flick shot, etc if you set the sensitivity right and use the analog stick as... well... analogue (remember the running/walking/sneaking tutorial in Mario 64?).

(In fact, there are various games that couldn't be done without analogue control. The dual stick controls in SKATE (yes, I know, a skating game, but Ico was about dragging some bint around) are actual genius.)

Also, if you're playing online/splitscreen everyone has the same control system so it's still a balanced playing field.

There's no need to make games easier just because a few PC gamers can't learn a new control method.

I have some other points about how PCs are used now and the increased polarisation of software resource requirements but I'm in a hurry so I'll post them later.

Basically, console gaming seems to be all the same fun without the mess, kinda like having... (you see where I'm going with this ;)


Also online deathmatch really wouldn't cut it for me on a control pad, I mean no flick 180 turns? No pixel perfect aiming?

That's just losing some of the precise control, it'd be more like having sex with you hands tied together... 'Hmm' 

increased resolution, more polygons, better color depth, more fps. Those are good things.

But improved controls with better accuracy, high update rate, they are somewhat totally irrelevant, they don't matter as long as it's the same for everyone.

What about ping times in multiplayer?

I think this is why I don't play any new games. 

or a lot of time to position the crosshair on an enemy, ping doesn't matter much at all, so these things are very multiplayer friendly too.

I think even the third dimension could be dropped. Hell, pacman and snake are great. Why even buy new consoles anymore? You can play with your 8 bit nintendo just as well.

In other words, your argument for wanting shitty controls is total bollocks. 

Seriously though - my experience of PC's and gaming in the past has always been a bit rocky, but with these new 8800/9800 graphics cards, core2duo's, DDR3 etc - it seems to me that the hastle has gone from getting a good PC platform for gaming.

And simply from looking at the trends in the price of hardware, unless some massive GPU factories blow up I dont see PC's suddenly becoming un-affordable again.

Its crazy really I think.

I mean how about this; If you were an avid gamer and could only choose either a PC or a console, which would you choose?

PC - You can do more with a PC in general - post on func_, create documents & media, surf the web easier than any other platform - you can still play games and there are a couple of PC only games. Also each game is a few moneys cheaper to buy.

Console - You can play games, play online etc, games are a tiny bit more expensive, but the console is a *little* cheaper than a PC.


I mean LORD! How many people do I know who have consoles just to play FIFA and nothing else (these guys should have consoles and not PC's - it would be a crime to give them PC's)

And say what you will - I am an fps fan. I will be playing fps's on PC's for years to come. I will also have consoles to play the fps's which come out on consoles and not PC's, but I would rather play them on a PC with a keyboard and mouse. I enjoyed Gears and everything, it was well set up for a console controller, but my experience of COD4 on the console was not so sweet (for me anyway) and I should have played it on the PC...

Also I would have rather played Bioshock on a PC, and I even bought Quake4 on the PC even though I had already completed it on the 360.

Each to his own I suppose.

An if you cleverdicks who are working in the industry feel like turning around and saying "well, MATEY, tuff' luck for you because there wont be PC Shooters any more soon because big allabaster companies which make sed shooters wont support your beloved format anymore because they can make more money making them for consoles, because occasionally sports fans get drunk and buy shooters (which they then play once, dont understand and leave on their shelves for eternity), or have relatives which cant think what else to buy them for christmas so our sales figures go through the roof and we'll all drive 6L v8 RV's and watch 50" televisions...."

well you get the idea :-(

(sob)

Im not talking about it ANYMORE!!! (screams)

(rolling around on the floor having a tantrum, breaking things - picks up 360, throws it into 32" LCD, breaks keyboard over knee, throws PC out of window, screams some more, then slumps in a corner, sobbing, staring at feet whilst playing with a razor, stroking it up and down his forearm...) 

increased resolution, more polygons, better color depth, more fps. Those are good things.

Not if they come at the (literal) expense of buying cutting edge hardware rather than a 200� console. (and tbh, have you seen the current level of graphics on consoles on a decent screen, and this is before developers have learned to maximise the hardware usage)

But improved controls with better accuracy, high update rate, they are somewhat totally irrelevant, they don't matter as long as it's the same for everyone.

Well, I tend to view a balanced playing field as a good thing, yes. The refresh rate on console controls is still very high and as for accuracy;

If it takes you three seconds to turn around or a lot of time to position the crosshair on an enemy, ping doesn't matter much at all, so these things are very multiplayer friendly too.

Try setting the sensitivity very high, that'll let you do fast spins if you push the stick full right/left, but you still have accurate aiming if you push the stick gently (it's called analogue control for a reason).

What about ping times in multiplayer?

What about ping times in multiplayer? They apply to both PC and console online gaming, so it's hardly an argument in favour of either, more a basic understanding of how the interwebiverse works. And given the speed of most gamers' internet connections, ping is generally an insignificant issue these days.

I think even the third dimension could be dropped. Hell, pacman and snake are great. Why even buy new consoles anymore? You can play with your 8 bit nintendo just as well.

Well, I like 3D, since; "increased resolution, more polygons, better color depth, more fps. Those are good things."

You buy a new console every 4 years or so, still cheaper than constant PC upgrades and at a lesser cost per year than the bill from my ISP and you get current level graphics and games that don't try to sell you hardware just to play them (got UT3 the other day, fun, but the number of hardware ads on boot scare me). How is that bad?


In other words, your argument for wanting shitty controls is total bollocks.

You said something I believe, possibly with needless profanity. As far as I can tell it was about not being able to learn to use new interfaces. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQw4ixYFWQI 

I've used analog joysticks every now and then for probably twenty years. And those pads some too.

I don't know anyone who would argue they are better for pointing in an FPS than a mouse.

So, I think everyone agrees that they are worse.

Arguing that it doesn't matter is maybe true for some percentage of people. But not most.

The ping example was one too. By the same analogy, if everyone had 300 ping, then ping wouldn't matter since the playing field would be level. No matter that it makes pulling off good moves much harder or impossible.

The "it's a level playing field" just doesn't make worse things as good as better things.

And them being somehow "new" (which they arent) does not relieve them of their inferiority. 

to be honest, a person could say this:

"Ok, analog sticks are clearly worse than the mouse for FPS. They deprive you of the ability to make quick awesome moves or precise control of the aiming or movement of the character, so we have to compensate by making the game easier. In a way, it's a step backwards to the days when people played with the keyboard. But we make more money that way, so it's all the same to us."

I don't say what you have to do. Game companies can go fist themselves all I care if they make money by doing that. But be honest about it. 

...I'm not really suicidal :)
it was a bad-taste point, tbh.

Ever seen that movie The Fisher King?

I'm not that guy. I was just stressing a point :-| 

"I don't know anyone who would argue they are better for pointing in an FPS than a mouse. "

I don't know anyone who would say either. What's being said, is that a game designed to be played with the controller is fine. It's a non-issue.

You seem to be (and correct me if I'm wrong) thinking that we're talking about dropping Quake onto a console and giving you a game pad. We're not. 

And just to pull the sales argument out here ... console shooters sell millions of copies. So that's many millions of people who don't have a problem using a controller. 

Millions of people play FIFA and have mums and girlfreinds who dont know what to get them so they get them the game which had the add with the cool music on the telly.

Millions of games lie un-used on the dusty shelves in people's living-rooms.

"There be gold in them-thar hills, g-hyuk..."

Im bias, you're bias, everybody is bias. It's not safe to talk about hardware on this thread, there be too many people with big bonusses on their minds, who are gonna start trying to flog consoles.

People suck. Money sucks. Gimme ART! Gimme what >I< fucking want!

I am right, everybody else is wrong. 

I think you misspell, it's biatch. 

I am an fps fan. I will be playing fps's on PC's for years to come.
....
and
I played Gears of War (1) on my xbox, heh - Quake4 (360), Doom3 (xbox), COD4 (yippee - split screen deathmatch!), Halo/2/3 (also yippee!), er Bioshock, Orange Box...

if even an avid PC fps fan like you prefers to play multiplatform games on aconsole its already over :) 

"Millions of people play FIFA and have mums and girlfreinds who dont know what to get them so they get them the game which had the add with the cool music on the telly. "
Unlikely. Fifa sells millions of copies because people want it. Same with Madden. Same with shooters.

"Im bias, you're bias, everybody is bias. It's not safe to talk about hardware on this thread, there be too many people with big bonusses on their minds, who are gonna start trying to flog consoles.

People suck. Money sucks. Gimme ART! Gimme what >I< fucking want! "

Wait until you're 30. 

..just how widespread is this?

i seem to remember you could use a keyboard & mouse on the ps2 via USB, although i never tried it & apparently it only worked on some games. i'd be more inclined to get into consoles & purchase a cordless mouse/keyboard if the majority of games supported them.

i guess it would pretty much null the analog-stick vs mouse argument to. i personally can't stand using the analog for aiming, to the extent that i wouldn't even bother trying to get used to it 

Fifa sells millions of copies because people want it.

No. http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=21824&start=314&end=314

e.g. i don't know anyone who bought a soccer/sports game. And germany must be a pretty big market. 

Come on, you're destroying your credibility here. You're telling me that sports titles sell millions and millions of units each year and nobody wants them? Is that your position? I want to be clear here. 

rj

Nobody wants a mouse and keyboard on their coffee table. Controllers are the way to do on consoles.

"i personally can't stand using the analog for aiming, to the extent that i wouldn't even bother trying to get used to it"

Well, that's a shame. You're missing a lot of great games. 

I dont mind playing a good game on a console with a controll pad. I remember playing Goldeneye on the N64 and getting my ass kicked. You quickly learn.

I'm just saying that I like to play on my PC more. I'd be sad if the PC shooter died out :-(

That's all I'm really saying here.

Willem you are a very self-assured person. Good for you! 

"Willem you are a very self-assured person. Good for you!"

Sorry if I come off a little strong. I just believe in what I'm saying and I can't stand by while people talk, in my opinion, nonsense like "nobody buys sports games" when they're selling millions of units every year.