Heh, I don't know func_ by heart exactly - old threads can be very hard to find. Shambler linked me here.

The idea is to make the trap at least as memorable as any monsters in the map, yeah.

And traps are just one option to break a map up a little, to give a different kind of challenge from the monster onslaught. 

creating a 'dazed' effect on the player by reducing 'sv_maxspeed', 'cl_yawspeed' and 'sensitivity' cvars...

or would that just be annoying? 

for a very short amount of time. 10-15 seconds?

Or do you mean a permanent effect? 

If it corresponds to the map/gameplay, then it might work. If it's during a horde arena battle, then maybe not...

Same goes for a mangle'd teleporter. 

Can you make it feel like the player has lost his sense of balance and is leaning one way or the next, and the put that right before an area with giant machinery-type things that can squish the player? Might be really annoying, or really tense. 

In runequake there is a rune that gives you the ability to drug people and one of them makes the player's view shift all over, can't remember the command though and also sometimes the players view would be off centerd when the effects wear off.
Perhaps you can use the command for this? 

default 0, increased a little during intermissions. can go up to 100 (or more?) for some seriously nauseating effects! 

Is an incredibly long time, really.

Screwing with the players view is fun but tricky - if you get it wrong then people who suffer from motion sickness won't be able to play and lazy people won't want to. 

hahah wow, v_idlescale is insane at high levels.

anyway, i was only thinking maybe 3-4 seconds at the very most. v_idlescale might be fun to mess around with but i don't think i'd go over 20ish.

mostly the dazed effect is really just daze-- making the player feel sluggish. like when you get blasted by explosives in war fps games. 

 

I was not aware of this feature... in FitzQuake it's more like walking on a boat in the open sea... I tried setting it at different value and indeed when it is higher than 20, it is almost impossible to play. I tried to play e1m1 with v_idlescale = 100... and I had to finish the game with the axe as it was impossible to shoot precisely...

It gives me an idea for my next project: black operation onto a boat in a open sea... (like Navy Seals intervention, or something equivalent).... hhhmmmmmm I have to investigate what could be done... 

I plan to use something like that to create a very short lived "drunk effect" in one of my maps.

:-) 

Did any Quake map to date make creative use of the following:

- Pushables (they're available since Scourge of Armagon)

- Physics (Gyro, ODE) (available for years)

- Rotating entities (not as simple doors or decoration, but as parts of the gameplay, be it as traps or as means to proceed through the map)

- Moving water (includes raising/lowering the water level, or using a current as a means of transport or a trap) (qc is available for years)

?

Why is this stuff available, but unused? It seems making the environment itself part of the gameplay has gone out of fashion? The three maps I played lately (Trinca's, Madfox', and neggers' unreleased) all rely on combat for over 90% of the gameplay.

Environmental stuff exists, why is it not being used?

Why is the environment not used to tell stories, either? All it does in most Quake maps is look cool.

As if there was a self imposed limit on creativity - "Quake needs no stories, and Quake is only about shooting." 

A lot of that is ... "extra stuff."

Pushables - I don't know how to make something pushable. I don't remember there being a func_pushable or somesuch.

Physics - had no idea, dunno what Gyro/ODE means.

Rotating entities - think one or two of necros' maps used these a lot. Negke's 768 map did as well (I think.) Probably others.

Moving water - had no idea water could move up and down. If it involves using qc, I don't want to futz with it. 

It does involve using qc. However, quite a few maps used their own progs.dat, like Marcher for example, and madfox' latest. Rotating entities are in Hipnotic and Quoth, pushables are in Hipnotic and Nehahra, moving water is in extras. All of those supply a progs.dat that's ready to be used I believe.

gyro is a set of qc files for Quake, allowing you to add physics to an object. It is very much plug and play. ODE is an open source physics engine, which for example darkplaces, and I believe FTE, have support for and is apparently very easy to use.

Rotation - I was looking for rotation directly as part of the gameplay, for example as a means of progression (like hopping from one moving gear to the next in a sort of clockwork etc). 

To mappers who don't use all the wonderful stuff that's lying around, but the reason is that monsters are easier.

Traps tend to get underused as well, even 'tricky' terrain, just because you have to test it a lot before it works right.

I remember that zigzag walkway in ProdigyXL that was over a slime pit - very simple, but effective. 

@gb ...

Has a story line to some degree. One of my favorite maps ...

In particular, it has an opening demo to tell it ...

http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/sop123.html

Obviously the following Quake maps have a story line of some semblance:

1. Hell In A Can

http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/casspq1.html

2. Starship 1/2

http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/starship.html
http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/starshp2.html

3. ... I forgot the 3rd one. 

http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/sgodrune.html 

I remember that zigzag walkway in ProdigySE that was over a slime pit - very simple, but effective.

i think prodigyxl might take exception to people walking on him, especially over a slime pit :d 

Why is the environment not used to tell stories, either? All it does in most Quake maps is look cool

i'm not sure i follow, can you give an example of an environment being used to tell a story? 

What I mean is "forensic detail", like that doom3 level where "suffering" etc are scrawled on the wall in blood, or simply dead/injured marines, barricades made from crates, burning ruins, Quake 2 scenes where pods crashed through the roof, open books on tables or scattered on the floor, anything that gives the impression that some event occurred in the environment, or is still occurring. Malfunctioning doors, SOS messages that no one answers, bloody altars with gibs on them, machines with their parts scattered around (or simply running machines), parts of buildings damaged or collapsed as if an attack happened (or they rotted away), furniture and pottery giving the effect of some sort of life going on in the level that exists by itself, independent of the player.

Sure shamblers probably have no furniture, but grunts/enforcers might, dogs might have cages or kennels, prisoners might be held in cells, and ogres or knights might use stuff or have places where they live, camp, torture, cook, or whatever else it is they do. There is an ogre cook, after all (in Nehahra).

Some forklifts or jeeps in some garage go a long way to suggesting that the place normally has a life. You'd have to find equivalent things for the Netherworld, etc. Like the unholy altars. That can't be all, though. 

suggestions noted. it does seem easier to convey in modern/realistic settings, for sure.. maybe less so in your typical quakey blocky medieval/runic map

i think that's one thing much of quake was characterised by though; the mystery of why everything is just *there*, seemingly not functioning or having any real purpose other than providing a gauntlet to run the player through. that said i do think little details like altars can compliment that effect, providing there is still an air of mystery as to why they are there... 

Good and inspiring stuff. I like all these ideas in different ways. Kinda proves the potential is there! 

~Mario/Wario/Zelda inspired monster ideas

Monsters don't go after the player but stay in their area. Some might not even have attacks but they just block the player's progression.

Monster with a shield/forcefield in front of it that damages the player if touched. So it is only attackable from behind. Basic monster in many games.

Monster with a rotating armor of some kind that has a hole in just one place (maybe 1/8 of the circumference). The player can only damage the monster by shooting through that hole (or from above?).

I also wrote "spawn creeps around and explodes" but I have no idea what that was supposed to mean.

Another piece of paper I can throw away. :-)

Also I think some faked multi-part monster could work amazing as either level decoration or boss fight. Think tentacles reaching out of holes, a scrag swarm moving in a bird-like rollercoaster path (like the Boss dragon but sucking less) or someone carefully spawning monsters or throwing things at you (not in an open space like the usual "range-attack monster on top of pillar").

Generally Quake could use some stationary monsters. If you place then interestingly and keep in mind what weapons and how much ammo is around, they would not suck. 

monster spawning monsters is not what I actually meant. Oops.