"why Quake just doesn't get the same level of newcomers Doom"

Great question. Simple answer.

Doom maps? They can all coop can't they?

Yeah, that's why. You can coop Doom. You can coop Half-Life with svenmod.

No coop support and none of the mappers here except the legendary ones (metslime, czg, necros, tronyn, distrans, scragbait, pulsar) would even know how to make a map that could coop.

DarkPlaces can coop. FTE can coop. Mark V can coop (ask Gunter).

See the thing is coop support is really, really, really hard because you have to know about networking too.

If you don't have any coop users and plenty of single player users that are quite happy, how would it ever get on your radar to learn how it works? 

It is both a technical issue and a lack of support at the same time, in my opinion: there is no support or advertising because there is no demand for it, and there is no demand or advertising because there is no support.

There is also the part that MP communities consider cooperative to be more like SP and don't pay it much attention to it, and SP communities don't play MP so care even less about coop, and both sides are a bit isolated between them with only Quakeone as more or less common ground. Don't know in detail how it is on Doom but they seem to be closer together.

So cooperative, even for ''dummies'', on Quakespasm as cooperative is seen as SP and its considered to be SP's flagship engine, to make it popular would be good. And second, how about Daz or another one that have enough popularity making videos of Quake SP maps make a cooperative play-through? That would help a lot with it. 

Teaser : https://youtu.be/-zqjNkdXT94

Looks faaarking fantastic. Proper dark fantasy (dare I say even Dark Souls-esque) vibe and setting with some meaty looking combat and magic powers?

Hell yes. 

Some of us specifically add features to our maps to make it coop friendly.

Coop is a huge part of what makes a game compete. Only one of my top 5 games doesn't have coop. Only backsliding lame game companies don't do coop. 

Did I just see like 4 or 5 new maps pop up...crap what are we up to now for the map total of 2017?!? This is great! 

Yeah, Ive neglected coop spawns in pretty much all of my maps. I should start including them.

I have considered doing a coop ONLY map at some point. I loved Portal 2 coop and I'd probably reflect on what made that game fun(to me) and implement some of those ideas into a coop map. 

 

i think i remembered to put a coop spawn in my xmasjam map, but i'm also pretty sure that it would be obscenely easy to get locked out of the final area unless both players are together before they run in... Oops. 

Maybe the next map I make will require coop - press 2 buttons at once sorta gimmick :p 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pOvZYeX_ThrAkVxgCEkCwuQPrQeSASGSmmqwyrqya6k/edit#gid=0

GG WP ALL. 

I've considered that as well. less localization is nice but it ultimately suffers from the same issue as text I think. Maybe lights (not the common red/green combo, but something else) + a sound effect. surely that's clear enough? 

Hi there, This is all of quake stitched together into a single map.

https://github.com/plankatron/quakemash/raw/master/release/quakemash.001.zip

Info : unzip this into your root quake folder, the zip contains an id1 dir with a maps folder containing the map.

I recommend these settings for best fun playtimes :

r_shadow_shadowmapping_useshadowsampler 0

r_shadow_shadowmapping_filterquality 0

r_shadow_shadowmapping_bordersize 0


Testing :
Darkplaces : recommended engine to run on.

fteqw : try with sv_bigcoords 1 , if audio echos , try switching sound devices.

quakemash : http://triptohell.info/moodles/qss/quakespasm-spike-r7.zip , set sv_protocol 999

Your Mileage may vary , I am hoping to release this to mainly do bug testing and fixes. Also if anyone feels like writing some qc to get stuff like gravity working there is a basic to crazy feature list outlined on the main github page.

https://github.com/plankatron/quakemash

Thanks to LadyHavoc and Spoike for helping me test it out. 

I've been waiting for someone to do this since I played the merged Beyond Belief.

A half-hearted attempt at getting this working in quakespasm was unsuccessful. Whenever this works in QS I'll be checking this out! 

Andrew Smith started up a Twitter thread about Quake mapping and John Carmack is involved now talking about QBSP and various timings. Fun if you're into that sort of thing. :)

https://twitter.com/meejahor/status/948700123995009025 

The bottleneck used to be vis, then light. Then these awesome people named Tyrann and ericw made the tools threaded and more efficient. Now Qbsp is the bottleneck (unless you use bounce and extra on light).

Is qbsp threaded? Could it be?

I usually get very fast compile times anyways. Does func_detail improve Qbsp time? 

Qbsp is the bottleneck

Since when? 

Then these awesome people named Tyrann and ericw made the tools threaded and more efficient.
*waves hand* Hey, I started it! 

Good god, searching back for the original thread ...

2009?! Jesus wept, I'm getting old ...

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60365 

Is qbsp threaded? Could it be?
It's not currently.

The bulk of time in Q1 qbsp tools is spent is CSGFaces: it clips every brush against every other brush (i.e. an O(n^2) algorithm, so the qbsp run time will be proportional to the number of brushes squared).

The solution I have in mind is upgrading to quake 2's qbsp tool (backporting it to support Q1). That eliminates the slow CSGFaces function, has multithreading support built in, and it should be more robust.
(Q1's has this weird design where it converts the brushes into faces, chops them against each other, builds a BSP tree, and then re-generates the leaf contents types by looking at the faces. This is how you can get the player falling through solid floors in some cases; the fact that a volume is solid/empty/etc is only carried through the compilation process in a "accidental" way that is prone to being lost.) 

You could probably do the 3 hull generations on their own threads? Not sure if that would save any time or not ... 

I missed that stage in compiler evolution. I jumped straight from Bengt Jardrup's ol' tools to Tyrutils. Sorry Jne...willemZ.

@ericw that sounds awesome! 

Sorry to be dramatic about it. I'll be on my fainting couch if anyone needs me. 

for Quake 2 compiler. That would be a bigger improvement than any other in the last years: i made maps almost breaking several Quake 2 limits and never had to wait more than five or six minutes for a full compile. That's unthinkable in Quake even when keeping it on the original limits, going heavy on func_detail and surface lights.

Qbsp is the bottleneck

When? In which cases? I'm intrigued. Vis is still the highest time consuming one in all the maps i make by a large margin, even when i don't use func_details or go really heavy on lights (3-10 per source). 

And a map the size of texas.