Simplicity is probably a big part of it. Figure that to get a basic Doom map from the editor to playing in-game, you need maybe one or two programs total, you can make the whole thing from the top view drawing walls and floors and doors, and you play it by dragging the .wad onto the game of your choice. With Quake you have at bare minimum four separate executable files- map editor, qbsp, light, and vis- with the latter three either requiring an editor that can auto-compile by filling out the paths for the tools, a fifth dedicated tool to act as a GUI (like Necros's compiling GUI), or running them all through the command line which is just silly (even though that's how it was done back in the day).

Then once you get a hang of the tools themselves, the world of brush based mapping can be confusing to a newcomer if they're used to Doom's dedicated floors/walls/etc, and despite the incredible amount of flexibility even Quake's basic map system gives compared to Doom's 2.5D (read: not requiring source ports or hacks for completely basic stuff like rooms over rooms or sloped surfaces- when everything counts as just a plain brush face, there's no floor/ceiling nonsense!), they then get to learn about fun things like using light entities instead of fullbright sectors, what leaks are and why their map is running so slow, scripting with triggers, relays and counters, and so on.

So then after all that you've decided instead of just map making, you want to delve into full-on modding, new enemies, weapons, what have you, and you discover there's nothing here but QuakeC which- while again, is arguably more powerful than Doom's various script types and infinitely more versatile as it isn't sourceport-dependent- requires, well, learning QuakeC. Then for actually getting visual representations of your snazzy new gun/monster/what have you, it's time to learn 3D modeling and track down all the tools and limitations required to make your project fit into Quake's ancient model and animation system, there's no fudging around in MS Paint for an hour kit-bashing someone else's sprites to make your very own pixelly masterpiece.

There's also the matter of popularity, which is a self-fueling thing like an engine dieseling after you cut the spark- while breaking 100 maps in a year is a milestone for a smaller community like func_ and the related Q1SP communities, Doom's modding community is staggeringly large, and people who want to make something for a wider playerbase- be it because they want the recognition or just wanting more people to be able to experience their work- will naturally be drawn to the game that already has a large base. It doesn't help that Doom has been basically 'memed to death' (for lack of a better term) ranging from endless agitating skellington 'jokes' to "But can it run Doom?" for every toaster oven, VR headset and digital wristwatch in existence, while Quake has always been kind of a black sheep outside Quakers themselves due to the pretty darn big differences between games and how- much like UT99/UT2004- Quake players seem to always be at each other's throat about why Your Favorite Quake actually sucks and why My Favorite Quake is the best game ever made, with the Quake series as a whole obviously going on to gain fame as a multiplayer franchise, and Q1/Q2 SP left in the dust to be forever shat upon by Doom players angry the double barrel shotgun can't kill an Ogre in one shot.

tl;dr duum is for brainlets, play more quake 

Doom attracts sprite artists. Quake doesn't. 

Guys, Skiffy posted a real job offer for level designers in the Jobs thread. That thread gets spam so often that people sometimes don't bother looking. But that one is for real. 

For locked doors and such. I like its unambiguity but it's not very elegant and feels too separate from the world. I would prefer a simple sound effect to convey the message but fear that's not clear enough... 

Less localization to do? 

"why Quake just doesn't get the same level of newcomers Doom"

Great question. Simple answer.

Doom maps? They can all coop can't they?

Yeah, that's why. You can coop Doom. You can coop Half-Life with svenmod.

No coop support and none of the mappers here except the legendary ones (metslime, czg, necros, tronyn, distrans, scragbait, pulsar) would even know how to make a map that could coop.

DarkPlaces can coop. FTE can coop. Mark V can coop (ask Gunter).

See the thing is coop support is really, really, really hard because you have to know about networking too.

If you don't have any coop users and plenty of single player users that are quite happy, how would it ever get on your radar to learn how it works? 

It is both a technical issue and a lack of support at the same time, in my opinion: there is no support or advertising because there is no demand for it, and there is no demand or advertising because there is no support.

There is also the part that MP communities consider cooperative to be more like SP and don't pay it much attention to it, and SP communities don't play MP so care even less about coop, and both sides are a bit isolated between them with only Quakeone as more or less common ground. Don't know in detail how it is on Doom but they seem to be closer together.

So cooperative, even for ''dummies'', on Quakespasm as cooperative is seen as SP and its considered to be SP's flagship engine, to make it popular would be good. And second, how about Daz or another one that have enough popularity making videos of Quake SP maps make a cooperative play-through? That would help a lot with it. 

Teaser : https://youtu.be/-zqjNkdXT94

Looks faaarking fantastic. Proper dark fantasy (dare I say even Dark Souls-esque) vibe and setting with some meaty looking combat and magic powers?

Hell yes. 

Some of us specifically add features to our maps to make it coop friendly.

Coop is a huge part of what makes a game compete. Only one of my top 5 games doesn't have coop. Only backsliding lame game companies don't do coop. 

Did I just see like 4 or 5 new maps pop up...crap what are we up to now for the map total of 2017?!? This is great! 

Yeah, Ive neglected coop spawns in pretty much all of my maps. I should start including them.

I have considered doing a coop ONLY map at some point. I loved Portal 2 coop and I'd probably reflect on what made that game fun(to me) and implement some of those ideas into a coop map. 

 

i think i remembered to put a coop spawn in my xmasjam map, but i'm also pretty sure that it would be obscenely easy to get locked out of the final area unless both players are together before they run in... Oops. 

Maybe the next map I make will require coop - press 2 buttons at once sorta gimmick :p 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pOvZYeX_ThrAkVxgCEkCwuQPrQeSASGSmmqwyrqya6k/edit#gid=0

GG WP ALL. 

I've considered that as well. less localization is nice but it ultimately suffers from the same issue as text I think. Maybe lights (not the common red/green combo, but something else) + a sound effect. surely that's clear enough? 

Hi there, This is all of quake stitched together into a single map.

https://github.com/plankatron/quakemash/raw/master/release/quakemash.001.zip

Info : unzip this into your root quake folder, the zip contains an id1 dir with a maps folder containing the map.

I recommend these settings for best fun playtimes :

r_shadow_shadowmapping_useshadowsampler 0

r_shadow_shadowmapping_filterquality 0

r_shadow_shadowmapping_bordersize 0


Testing :
Darkplaces : recommended engine to run on.

fteqw : try with sv_bigcoords 1 , if audio echos , try switching sound devices.

quakemash : http://triptohell.info/moodles/qss/quakespasm-spike-r7.zip , set sv_protocol 999

Your Mileage may vary , I am hoping to release this to mainly do bug testing and fixes. Also if anyone feels like writing some qc to get stuff like gravity working there is a basic to crazy feature list outlined on the main github page.

https://github.com/plankatron/quakemash

Thanks to LadyHavoc and Spoike for helping me test it out. 

I've been waiting for someone to do this since I played the merged Beyond Belief.

A half-hearted attempt at getting this working in quakespasm was unsuccessful. Whenever this works in QS I'll be checking this out! 

Andrew Smith started up a Twitter thread about Quake mapping and John Carmack is involved now talking about QBSP and various timings. Fun if you're into that sort of thing. :)

https://twitter.com/meejahor/status/948700123995009025 

The bottleneck used to be vis, then light. Then these awesome people named Tyrann and ericw made the tools threaded and more efficient. Now Qbsp is the bottleneck (unless you use bounce and extra on light).

Is qbsp threaded? Could it be?

I usually get very fast compile times anyways. Does func_detail improve Qbsp time? 

Qbsp is the bottleneck

Since when? 

Then these awesome people named Tyrann and ericw made the tools threaded and more efficient.
*waves hand* Hey, I started it! 

Good god, searching back for the original thread ...

2009?! Jesus wept, I'm getting old ...

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60365