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@shambler - TL2's light rpg elements would fit well in an old school fps with a little more streamlining imo.
@iriyap - same here. @qmaster - thank you, good sir! Looking at the ogre art/models above I am reminded of a custom ogre that is Madfox's excellent Fourfeather:
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/fourfeather0.html The new ogre in this map does seem to resemble these models, I wonder is it an original or are these models available somewhere - Madfox? I'm going to guess he made it because of all the other custom stuff in the map (Bender!) Also, @killpixel - looks awesome. For some reason the art style in those videos reminds me of the Rayman universe. To answer my own question, it seems that in the readme for Fourfeather the ogres are based on the ones in QuakeTest with some modification. So it is indeed a model of an alternative ogre design. A cool piece of Quake history.
are these models available somewhere
Yes, they are. I reassembled some files together and left it on Quaketastic. For defense they needed the Rubicon files, so it's a bit hard to extract them. It's allso the one that's used in QuakeReMake. EldenOgre rejected here because there's no info about what it is at all. need screens and short description at least.
The day scene is awesome. The night scene isn't as impressive for me, but it has a more consistent visual style.
I don't mean this as a post to stir things up. It's a genuine question. Is it purely down to Doom being simpler to map for?
I love both games but I've often wondered why Quake just doesn't get the same level of newcomers even though the game itself is probably more influential in the industry... Simplicity is probably a big part of it. Figure that to get a basic Doom map from the editor to playing in-game, you need maybe one or two programs total, you can make the whole thing from the top view drawing walls and floors and doors, and you play it by dragging the
Then once you get a hang of the tools themselves, the world of brush based mapping can be confusing to a newcomer if they're used to Doom's dedicated floors/walls/etc, and despite the incredible amount of flexibility even Quake's basic map system gives compared to Doom's 2.5D (read: not requiring source ports or hacks for completely basic stuff like rooms over rooms or sloped surfaces- when everything counts as just a plain brush face, there's no floor/ceiling nonsense!), they then get to learn about fun things like using light entities instead of fullbright sectors, what leaks are and why their map is running so slow, scripting with triggers, relays and counters, and so on. So then after all that you've decided instead of just map making, you want to delve into full-on modding, new enemies, weapons, what have you, and you discover there's nothing here but QuakeC which- while again, is arguably more powerful than Doom's various script types and infinitely more versatile as it isn't sourceport-dependent- requires, well, learning QuakeC. Then for actually getting visual representations of your snazzy new gun/monster/what have you, it's time to learn 3D modeling and track down all the tools and limitations required to make your project fit into Quake's ancient model and animation system, there's no fudging around in MS Paint for an hour kit-bashing someone else's sprites to make your very own pixelly masterpiece. There's also the matter of popularity, which is a self-fueling thing like an engine dieseling after you cut the spark- while breaking 100 maps in a year is a milestone for a smaller community like func_ and the related Q1SP communities, Doom's modding community is staggeringly large, and people who want to make something for a wider playerbase- be it because they want the recognition or just wanting more people to be able to experience their work- will naturally be drawn to the game that already has a large base. It doesn't help that Doom has been basically 'memed to death' (for lack of a better term) ranging from endless agitating skellington 'jokes' to "But can it run Doom?" for every toaster oven, VR headset and digital wristwatch in existence, while Quake has always been kind of a black sheep outside Quakers themselves due to the pretty darn big differences between games and how- much like UT99/UT2004- Quake players seem to always be at each other's throat about why Your Favorite Quake actually sucks and why My Favorite Quake is the best game ever made, with the Quake series as a whole obviously going on to gain fame as a multiplayer franchise, and Q1/Q2 SP left in the dust to be forever shat upon by Doom players angry the double barrel shotgun can't kill an Ogre in one shot. tl;dr duum is for brainlets, play more quake Guys, Skiffy posted a real job offer for level designers in the Jobs thread. That thread gets spam so often that people sometimes don't bother looking. But that one is for real.
For locked doors and such. I like its unambiguity but it's not very elegant and feels too separate from the world. I would prefer a simple sound effect to convey the message but fear that's not clear enough...
"why Quake just doesn't get the same level of newcomers Doom"
Great question. Simple answer. Doom maps? They can all coop can't they? Yeah, that's why. You can coop Doom. You can coop Half-Life with svenmod. No coop support and none of the mappers here except the legendary ones (metslime, czg, necros, tronyn, distrans, scragbait, pulsar) would even know how to make a map that could coop. DarkPlaces can coop. FTE can coop. Mark V can coop (ask Gunter). See the thing is coop support is really, really, really hard because you have to know about networking too. If you don't have any coop users and plenty of single player users that are quite happy, how would it ever get on your radar to learn how it works? It is both a technical issue and a lack of support at the same time, in my opinion: there is no support or advertising because there is no demand for it, and there is no demand or advertising because there is no support.
There is also the part that MP communities consider cooperative to be more like SP and don't pay it much attention to it, and SP communities don't play MP so care even less about coop, and both sides are a bit isolated between them with only Quakeone as more or less common ground. Don't know in detail how it is on Doom but they seem to be closer together. So cooperative, even for ''dummies'', on Quakespasm as cooperative is seen as SP and its considered to be SP's flagship engine, to make it popular would be good. And second, how about Daz or another one that have enough popularity making videos of Quake SP maps make a cooperative play-through? That would help a lot with it. Teaser : https://youtu.be/-zqjNkdXT94
Looks faaarking fantastic. Proper dark fantasy (dare I say even Dark Souls-esque) vibe and setting with some meaty looking combat and magic powers? Hell yes. |
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