Did anybody here ever actually play Kingpin? It gets mixed reviews generally, but the GOG Back to School sale has it for $3.99

I was just debating whether to get it.

Lot's of games at good prices there. It ends sometime Sunday. 

Imo it's a good game. Has good atmosphere and few interesting mechanics like followers, who You can hire and they will fight by your side. Sometimes gameplay is getting too hard, but I have good memories in overall.

So... Go get it!

...and if you like cool mechanics get Messiah too. 

Haven't played it since then but I have fond memories of this game.

Messiah looked interesting too but I never was able to run it on any of my systems. 

is a very nice game. 

Should we create a Netradiant thread with the links provided by ww in the mapping help thread? 

Should we create a Netradiant thread

Yes please. Now that someone has decided to carry on developing that editor it would be nice to centralise the posts, and hopefully bring it to the developer's attention. One real obvious feature it could do with is support for valve 220 texturing. 

I created a thread for NetRadiant...mind you I'm not terribly experienced with it so others please chime in with your input over there. 

... the Orl Maps from 2006.

Some good stuff and some err... not so good (some decidedly dodgy brushwork in a couple of places). Played on Normal and got thrashed, played on Easy and did a little better. But overall, a good romp with some difficult set pieces and some c-r-a-z-y textures.

To be honest, I simply didn't understand the Pie Room. I managed to eat them all but still got eaten myself. 

I tried to get into it a few times, but always stopped right at the beginning - when you get your first gun and it feels a bit like using the pistol to fight mid-to-high-tier monsters in Doom. 

<cardo> yes, spoiler alert: I am onetruepurple's ass skin 

Yeah, the first gun sucks major ass, but it gets better when you have more firepower. 

I'm reading through this article, and seeing stuff like this:

"The time I spent at id was a revelation to me. It was the first time I had ever seen a team of highly talented, extremely creative individuals at work on one project. I found it absolutely irresistible."

"when I saw the group at id, I realized that I was aching to work with other people � people whose artistic visions and abilities would give me a daily jolt of awe and inspiration."

"I knew they had licensed the Quake engine, which was the only technology that really interested me. I couldn�t understand why someone didn�t take the best engine they could get, namely Carmack�s, and use it to tell fantastic first-person 3D stories. Needless to say, when I finally got a look at what Valve was up to, I felt an immense cosmic click." 

In a few different ways, Valve finished what id Software started and abandoned.

1) Good level editor - Hammer after acquiring Worldcraft
2) Taking single player story telling and taking what Quake did and extending to new heights. (Half-Life for starters, ..)
3) Taking multiplayer and extending it to new heights .. Counter-Strike ---> Team Fortress 2 ---> CSGO
4) An integrated store with user ids and built-in accounts, with options to purchase more stuff --- Steam, obv.

id Software went the other direction, boiling Quake deathmatch down to a pure "bots"/multiplayer direction ---> Quake 3 Arena.

id went to the simple route, Valve went the diverse route.

id Software is a ghost of what it could have been, Valve maximized what it could become to the limit. 

I think what "killed" id was really the creative loss they suffered around Quake, to be honest. Carmack drove the company in a very technical direction from that point on, and I think the real legacy since has been the technology they produced. Q3A may have been barebones, but the id tech engine for that game went on to power a good chunk of the industry, even to this day. (Call of Duty, as far as I know, is still built on top of the codebase they started with, which was id tech)

I think what's hurt them now is the expanded requirements of gaming. Competition is rougher, and engines need to do more and do it better as well. Newer id techs just don't grab as many eyeballs as they used to, and the licensed engine business has been dominated by a few core companies, none of which are id. 

What was the question?

This seems like a cool article, thanks for the link. I had no idea Laidlaw had worked @id. 

Oh, I forgot to remove the title before posting.

I couldn't formulate the question. 

I guess my question is� that there seems to be no place for such an environment in today's world anymore.

Sometimes I have the impression that if Carmack was starting today, he would have no chance. Neither Romero, or most of the others from the beginning of id.

Carmack evolved his knowledge from Hovertank 3D to Quake III Arena in just 8 years, creating most of the tech by himself. But he had a supportive team by his side. They trusted Carmack's potential, and helped him so he could keep studying and coding for as long as possible. I don't see this happening in any company today.

The more I read about id's history, the more it sounds like a fairy tale. Too good to belong in today's world. 

Well, if you count infighting that cost the company Hall and Romero, it wasn't the happiest of fairy tales. 

 

Seriously?

You can't say "small team cannot make popular game" today.

Ever heard of Minecraft?

Most popular game in recent history completely undermines your statement. 

I guess if id were starting today they would be an indie dev team. 

It's not about popularity (although that helps to pay the bills). On the contrary.

It's about creating amazing ambitious innovations, with bold artistic expressions that aren't afraid of taking risks or becoming unpopular. About having a rich and strong creative vision and following it.

The infighting was a collateral effect, but they still managed to create truly inspiring things no matter what. 

1) The early works of id Software were not works of art. Commander Keen? Wolfenstein? Doom? Quake 3?

2) They were targeted specifically to be POPULAR.
2a) Blood and guts everywhere
2b) Berserker powerup in Doom, enemy turns into bloody pulp when hit.
2c) Evil "God mode" looking powerup
2d) Nine Inch Nails sound track and NIN on health boxes? I don't claim to know much about NIN but I think they were a popular band in the 1990s.
2e) Carmack giving away his Ferrari in a tournament? He was about being cool.
2f) Quake 3 arena announcer saying cool stuff in a super-manly voice like "Excellent"?

I do not know what id Software you are talking about, but it isn't this one.

/You can make part of that argument about Quake about art, if you successfully ignore all of their early works and also ignore Quake 3 Arena.

Note: Being unpopular in business = no sales. 

 

Holy fuck, I just wrote a 5 paragraph reply about this and bloody Chrome thrashed it.

Anyway. Id wasn't afraid of pissing people off. They didn't want to be "popular" as in pleasing everyone. Their games weren't bland watered down crap with hands-holding gameplay. They didn't play safe when developing their games.

Their primary goal wasn't about being popular. It was about giving excitement to people, no matter how controversial their means could be. It was about building a loyal audience with people who liked the kinds of things they were creating. This is not the same thing as trying to please everyone.