an example of what bamby meant is Star Trek, which explores the idea of a society that has overcome racism, greed and jealousy when i read bambs post, star trek was the example that came to my mind for the movie side of scifi. It's like greek gods: they're meta physical beings, but still modeled after the human emotions. They are extremely alike to ourselves.

A better example for idea-scifi would probably be Fiasco ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiasco_(novel) ), where the idea is that humans are not able to communicate with the civilisations they try to find in space, and the complete story, characters, etc. is/are modeled around that central idea. Concept would be a better word, here, probably. Still not a very good example, because the world isn't really "modeled" per se.

OT: wow, it did just occur to me: the "blank" state of mind the protagonist is in emphasises how we physically are not able to understand other civilisations. He isn't even really formed by our society, and still isn't able to understand them. Wow. Need to buy & re-read.

As far as the eye could see, the slopes were covered with throngs of naked, defenseless warts, and as the towering antennas, breaking, fell upon him in flames, he realized he had seen the Quintans. -- last line of the book. 

And that last line is even more depressing when you read 300 pages to be with them when they first communicate, and you have those pages physically in your hands, when you reach that line.

Damnit, bamb, you must know other sci-fi like those lem books, please recommend :D 

Star Trek, which explores the idea of a society that has overcome racism, greed and jealousy. But that's exactly what I found so boring about it...

I would agree with you except the stories are all about the alien cultures and planets they find, which are all flawed and different in interesting ways (in the good episodes at least.) And from what I remember, the Federation was very smug about how advanced and enlightened they are, but they pulled a lot of tricks to resolve the conflicts (maybe Kirk's personality at work there.) 

Carnivale 1 was way creepier and more interesting than S2, but 2 was still good, and definitely had its moments. For me the main difference was simply that they sped the plot up a lot. S1 was like alien, not much action but a lot of sinister ambience, whereas 2 was like Aliens - lots of plotting, fighting, etc.

Brother Justin was an amazing character, as was "Management". I missed Lodz from S1 though.

If by main character nonentity you mean Nick Stahl's character, then I don't know what you mean - it seems to me like he actually figured out what he was supposed to do and started doing it, instead of being a withdrawn bitch like he was in S1. 

wxactly. Realised show was getting cancelled and started tying up things a bit too quickly. 

has one of the best episodes with the maskmaker.

I think the thing is the quality drop is noticeable despite s2 being way above most tv in general. 

Some good discussion ensued!
Stanislaw Lem is a nice example of "idea scifi", especially the short stories (Cyberiad/Kyberias, Pirx the pilot, Fables etc). And it definitely is not boring, it is one of the funniest things written!
I heard they were making a movie of Fiasco. Dunno how that will work. I think the plots of such movies should not be divulged beforehand. It's the plot that is the most important thing. So it doesn't work in blockbusters where everyone knows how it starts and ends. That's also why I never read the back cover of books. The reading experience is almost totally without anticipation and surprises since the back text reveals about 70% of the plot. Same with bad movie reviews. I'm not interested in telling the plot beforehand to decide if I'm going to see the movie. I'm interested in what the movie is like, and decide on that.

There's not much stuff similar to Lem. Philip K Dick is kinda oversurreal but there are bits and pieces of insight I feel (or then I'm just too stupid for him). Ubik sucked but others have been better. Then there's of course the classics, Heinlein, Clarke, haven't read Asimov that much. Hoyle has some goodish stuff but there are a few big problems with his books (won't spoil that tho).

Star Trek is a good point of TV "idea scifi", I hadn't thought of that. I find it very boring - it's so clean and detached. Maybe the ideas would be fascinating but just not for me, or they are presented in such a extremely simplified form that they become meh... 

and Ursula K Le Guin has some society ideas though I kinda haven't decided on them, they just seem nice books for some reason. (Dispossessed and the green forest world book) 

they should just stop making any more crime shows IMHO :) 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle is mentionend on the fiasco talk page.

And yeah, Pirx, I should have mentioned those short stories. The one with the fly in the cabin of his patrol ship! 

you said that. 

Nitin's post has prompted me to say: they've just started showing The Wire in the UK, weeknights on BBC2. So what may be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to watch the show for free if you're a Brit. The first episode was shown last night, so if you can find a copy of that online you can easily catch up and join the "shared watching experience". The second episode is tonight at 11:20. 

It is great stuff.

I haven't seen the whole series, more like bits and pieces from here and there and then maybe the last season.

In a sense, a tv series makes it possible to make a huge epic story far bigger than any movie. Whole life stories of people and examination of their changes during the years. BSG had that. Great acting and casting and enough care with the direction. Also the more "tactical" (as compared to strategic) aspects were very very well done. Camerawork, sets, overall flow.

But it has caveats - mostly with the plot this time. Probably the writers just have to drop lots of hints on the way and still eventually find that they have painted themselves into a corner and just gotta end it with some out of the left field device. Too bad. :/ As a whole there are huge glaring holes and it doesn't make a compelling coherent story I'm afraid. I will proceed to name a few.

Why the fuck is Hera so important? How many humans and cylons had tried to have sex? It seemed to have very good prognoses since in at least two of the not so many cases (3?) it had lead to pregnancy. (Mental note that it was always a human man fucking a woman cylon.) And if Hera was so important, why not jump out when she was in the ship? All the waffling about and waiting. In the end the whole plot device of the solution of the series was just the blonde angel, Starbuck, jumping to the right coordinates. And that was it.

Maybe I'm just different from the majority of audiences, but to me the worst flaws in movies and tv shows have always been in the scripts.
Considering how many millions are poured into the sets, direction, effects and actor salaries, it is mind boggling that the scripts are so inane. Huge holes of logic exist, completely amateurish plot devices, completely uncredible motivations, or often no plots at all. I still don't get it why more movies and tv shows are not made based on books - they (well, better books, but you have a lot to choose from) at least have some more thought out storylines. There were a lot of clever and compelling ideas in the series, mostly things that happened during one or two episodes, but not overall...

BSG is very very hard to top in overall quality and character. In a sense it's completely awesome. But there really could be a scifi series with an actual plot that made some sense. 

http://www.videosift.com/video/Calling-All-Sci-Fi-Geeks-James-Cameron-s-Avatar

Really shows nothing of the actual movie it seems, but I am effectively teased :P 

We know what's it like when it's a hollywood movie. The astronauts are constantly fighting and killing each other and in the end we find humanity is its own worst enemy. 

 

Anyone seen these?
I've watched both once. I'm planning on watching Martyrs again, because I'm pretty certain I think it's stupid, but maybe a second viewing will make the ending seem less goofy to me. Didn't find the torture porn aspect as hard to watch as I thought based on reviews.
[Rec] is the kind of movie that's easy to take in in one sitting, but it's fucking awesome. Great, low budget first person 'found film' style zombie flick, with the best boss zombie in a while. 

metl saw it and quite liked it form his comments, its sitting in my unwatched pile. 

Kind Hearts and Coronets (1949)
Absolutely fantastic. I would sign nitin's comment
http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=3545&start=2135&end=2135
Highly recommended.

The english was hard for me to follow though, the poor sound quality from those old times did not help that. But that's not the movie. 

what did you see it off? the US dvd by criterion has pretty good sound quality IMHO. 

Some copy... Looked like a better TV stream rip. Good to know that there is something better out there.

And now, why did they make a Into the Blue sequel without Jessica Alba. :( 

http://www.imdb.com/keyword/the-hire/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hire
Get this if you like Clive Owen (loner), fast cars (cool) and somewhat dark storylines with lots of action.
I only saw the first 4 so far, 1+2 were great, 3 a bit confusing and 4 a bit stupid (music killed the atmosphere for me). 

The later episodes get the suck (as usual when things get popular and mainstream). I#d recommend watching 1, 2, 3 though, the others if you really feel like it. 5 or 6 was kinda nice. The last one is abysmal and that's the first time I used that word. 

way behind in comments, so heres some quick one/two liners of stuff :

Traitor (2008) - very average pseudo-intelligent post iraq thriller. Only saving grace is Don Cheadle.

5.5/10


The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943) - beautifully shot, epic, touching film from Powell and Pressburger that barely wastes a scene in its 160 min runtime.

8/10


A Short Film About Killing (1988) - powerful, disturbing and objective anti-capital punishment movie from Kieslowski.

8/10


Hands Across the Table (1934) - above average screwball comedy with Carole Lombard and Fred MacMurray making a likeable pairing.

6/10


True Confession (1937) - blander comedy with the same two stars, but Lombard doesn�t disappoint with her comic timing.

5/10


Jodhaa Akbar (2008) - stunningly shot and scored bollywood epic which will cause your jaw to drop on more than occasion from the sheer grandeur of it all. Unfortunately it is not as compelling dramatically as it is visually.

6.5-7/10


Life on Mars UK Season 1 - average police procedural with a nice but poorly executed premise. Some enjoyable characters but the plots of most episodes are pretty weak.

5.5/10 

The Browning Version (1951) - tremendous, minimalist film with a great performance by Michael Redgrave who comes to terms with his failure as a teacher after learning that his pupils and colleagues are happy to see him leave when he is forced into retirement.

8/10


Amarcord (1973) - Federico Fellini's over the top and deliberately caricatured nostalgic recreation of his own youth in a small italian town is a series of great moments in an otherwise disjointed narrative. Has spawned many imitations like Cinema Paradiso and Malena but even in its disjointed state, it is better than them.

6/10


Barry Lyndon (1975) - amazingly shot and scored and also a very ambitious period film by Kubrick with a great first half. Then it comes to a bit of a standstill which unfortunately lasts most of the second half before finishing with a strong ending that makes up it somewhat.

6.5-7/10


The Wire Season 2 - big change of scene from the Baltimore streets to the Docks and while the change allows it to explore different themes, in the end the setting is slightly less interesting than that of the first season. Still a great season of tv though, despite the dramatic shift in focus.

8/10


Bigger Than Life (1956) - nicholas ray's dark technicolor filmed melodrama explores similar areas to many of Douglas Sirk's films and is only let down by a pat ending which rings very untrue.

7/10


The Bride Came COD (1941) - surprisingly bland pairing of Bette Davis and James Cagney who fail to click in a pretty averagely attempted comedy.

4.5-5/10


Cape Fear (1961) - scorsese's version was entertaining high camp, this is an entertainingly straight old school suspense film with Robert Mitchum terrifically sinister as Max Cady.

7-7.5/10


The Chaser (2008) - extremely well made if overlong suspense thriller set in the underbelly of Seoul with various parties tracking a serial killer over the course of one night. Na Hong-jin is a name to look out for.

7-7.5/10