Seems like a fair bit of nostalgic memory about the original map though, try comparing the two in the same mod, and then playing the old version in id1 progs.

For example the level is much more open than the original - the crampt areas tend to be where it gets close to the original in size.

The monsters that don't attack are NPC's - and they tend to get slaughtered by the other monsters pretty quickly.

The weapons are actually much more powerful, on average. The massacre idea, but also toolbox. No longer will you be able to complete a level with only SG + patience.

Hole with slime - you mean the one in the reactor room? The idea was that you've already avoided it once, but then the lights go out.

Probably should have made it more noticable first time round - the player sees the floor break or something.

Also, the red vision / heartbeat gives a small damage increase - you're in rage mode. 

We were talking this over and wanted to float the idea. Going to a Doom1 percentage might be better. 

A percentage might work. I just like knowing how far I am into a level. It allows me to conserve ammo and such and play with some intelligence. 

The two layout/route changes that annoyed me the most were the following:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/text_fish/rq1.jpg
Having to open these doors with a button seemingly added nothing. Sure, it may equal more virtual 'real estate', but it doesn't actually add anything to the game play of the level. If anything I would say it detracts because it interrupts the flow.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/text_fish/rq2.jpg
Is this tiny lift really the only way to progress due to that locked door? Once again, all this change did was make me have to walk further -- through areas that I'd already explored no-less!

To sum up the above two examples, if you're going to add something to Quake make sure it actually contributes something exciting.

RE: The slime pit. If you're going to make an inescapable death trap it should be insta-death. The reason I didn't mention it earlier is because I couldn't comprehend an experienced Quake mapper seriously adding a slow, inescapable deathpit to a level. It's not fun.

I assume the NPCs you're talking about are those axe-men that keep running around randomly killing monsters before I get a chance. What's the thinking behind this? Visually and audibly they're pretty indistinguishable from the enemy lineup, so I was repeatedly baffled by this as I played.

I too am a fan of the low health thing. I also like the hand underneath the shotgun, although it makes it feel as if it's firing off center, which threw me at first.

Quick Bug Report:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/text_fish/rq3.jpg
I got stuck in the shootable switch above when it reactivated, and had to noclip out. Maybe clip the whole thing off. 

I have played some more. I really like all the changes to the weapons. Many interesting twists that enrich the fights. As I said earlier monster behaviour is also ok. The gameplay seems to be pushed in good direction. More bloody, fast and quakey.
Isn't the RL too powerfull after the changes? It boosts me all over start.bsp now.

e3m1rq - the map seems to be more closed than the original because at start it is blocked in more places. Old speedrunning tricks/routes not possible. Yeah, nostalgia sits inside of me. 

I like the way one exploding grenade will knock another way. This should make 'nade spam quite a laugh.

I didn't much like losing my shotty for good after it backfired though. Perhaps it could reappear in the next map? :\ 

I think most of the problems are just related to the fact that we pretty much changed the game, so after getting familiar with the old ways for 13 years, this is hard to accept. Instinctive anti reaction. I don't mean this in an insulting way. I believe there really is such a gut reaction.

Yes, when you get under a certain health amount (skill dependant, like most things in the game) you practically go berserk. This is called Rage. The screen goes red and you do a lot more damage, in a last ditch sort of way. At the same time, your health starts regenerating until you reach 25, at which point the rage will subside. 25 HP aren't much in RMQ though.

This can be abused - intentionally entering Rage is like a mini-quad. But it's also very dangerous, any grunt can quickly end your rampage. I imagine speed runners can probably use Rage to zoom through a map like a hot knife through butter.

Kudos to Supa for this. Your statue is on the way.

The other thing is underwater combat - you want to use the nailgun, pretty much. You can theoretically also use the grapple to get close to your victim, then chainsaw him to death.

In many ways, RMQ's nailgun is what the shotty was to vanilla Quake. The axe, BTW, is going to be reintroduced.

Some monsters do more damage, and are Z-aware. However, you yourself also do more damage. Much more damage, especially with the shotguns. This brings a certain DOOMiness to the game.

Grunts will now strafe (they are not really good at it, though). They are the *only* monsters who strafe. Notice that one SG shot will end their cheap tactics. I think that's balanced enough.

About monster count, well, RMQ isn't the only game to not have it. Doom 3 doesn't show it, either. It was a team vote to do away with it.

I also think that many simply have much too fond memories of original Quake. It often seems "the originals" are viewed through some sort of nostalgic glasses. Original e3m1 is really cramped (and ugly to boot).

Due to the gargantuan size of the project, and the small team size, there are of course many things that aren't perfect yet, too.

Please remember that we don't have access to a professional sound studio and tons of expensive sample libraries. The sound is really pretty good, though. Some cases can always be improved, of course. We are aware of that.

The dogs make Rottweiler sounds, as Rottweilers should. 

About the shotgun getting permanently blown up, yes, it might be possible to place the shotgun as a normal weapon pickup, or simply code it to reappear at the start of the next map.

Let's wait and see. 

Well, the first one is just to set up an ambush from the room that must be entered first. That room can be entered in two different ways depending on a secret which modifies the route.

Tbh it's a pretty minor detour there, which fills back up with enemies as well.

That little lift is just a shortcut to help you back up if you've fallen down. After that point you need go up the bigger lift and find the mystery fuse to open the exit corridor (circular window ceiling).

Its possible that my opening up of shortcuts caused some confusion - as Ankh says it may seem more shut in because the original is more open at the start. But also more confusing to new players, believe me.

The NPC's aren't the axe grunts (who do attack) - they're the QuakeGuy's who tend to have very short lifespans.

If the axegrunts are killing them then everything is good - if they're killing other monsters then that's infighting.

The slime pit not being instakill and that shootable button clip issue are bugs, yeah. 

was really fun, but i think the grenades should sound like the normal quake grenades

..which kinda sound like bouncing aerosol cans, the new sound is like glass bottles ;)

that's my only complaint, h and maybe the npc's should put up SOME kinda fight, they are quakeguys aren't they? 

> That little lift is just a shortcut to help you back up if you've fallen down.

That's in vanilla e3m1, too.

Grenade bounce sound, yeah, relatively hard to find a good one though, surprisingly. I remember spending quite some time trying to find something better. 

http://www.4shared.com/file/122493551/9eab2bb6/RemakeQuakeDemo.html

It's a zip instead of Rar and weighs in ~35MB more - but should be simpler for those on non-windows OS's. 

I just wanted them to die quickly - the idea is for them to get slaughtered just before the player arrives. That's a map thing - the misc_npc entity is extremely open ended.

They can have a load of different attacks, whatever model you like, be good evil or nuetral. move in a variety of ways (land, air, liquid) and so on.

Later on they'll get access to more stuff in the attack library.

And all that is map side set. Even with preset options for the lazy. 

http://www.quake-1.com/files/modfiles/RemakeQuakeDemo_20090802.zip

just for cross-forum access 

Nicer than 4shared - for sure. 

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/screen_shots/rqdemo1.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/screen_shots/rqdemo2.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/screen_shots/rqdemo3.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/screen_shots/rqdemo4.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/screen_shots/rqdemo5.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/screen_shots/rqdemo6.jpg 

If you call it RemakeQuake then of course you will be compared to Quake. And if you are not "better" than the criticism is justified.

To me this sucks and that has not much to do with an "anti" attitude. Things don't fit together (sounds (terrible, sorry. The frequency does not matter.), Q2 rips, health vials). It feels totally random. There are many quirks but most have been defended as intended already. Bah.
Maybe call it DoomQuake instead or something?

I too found the map very confusing. Lighting is bad, too dark/black (not a lack of minlight, no). Fell into the slime too, bad.

PS: Quaketastic is there for your hosting needs... 

At first I was eager to find out how the stronger shotgun would work. I liked it, it feels powerful (even with the huge spread, off-center aim and sound). Going through a bunch of grunts is fun.

But then I realised that it dumbs down the game a lot. If do you not kill with your first shot, you have to decide a lot more what to hit and when. Now you just "point and kill" which might contradict with your overall design, I am not sure. 

i find it odd that so much of the early criticism is on the map itself when the map is really just the table that they're laying all the food down on.

i think the map looks great except for absolutely terrible lighting (did you not know some areas are completely full dark?).

i'm not sure, but it seemed to me like the monsters have some kind of random roaming, which (if it's there, and not me hallucinating) is pretty cool. (also, nice job setting up walk paths. i find people tend to ignore that a lot these days but i like that it feels like the world is more than just there for you to blow up).
the npcs mostly just annoyed me. a lot of times i just killed them because i didn't care to differentiate between npc and monsters or they just got in my line of fire.

on to the mod itself.

sounds are a mixed bag. weapon sounds i don't mind much, they are ok and do the job. monster sounds though, especially the ones where you got some guy to yell... very cringe-worthy. i think i actually did while playing.

also, shotgun exploding underwater (and weapon misfiring) is, not only nonsensical, it's pointless. underwater combat in quake is already extremely limited, and now you are artificially hobbling it even more which pretty much means it will be non-existent.
same goes for the lightning knockback while firing. why? it's not like the lightning gun was amazing or anything. it's incredible damage rate was tempered by it's incredibly fast consumption of cells. in fact, i've found players are conditioned against using the LG except as a last resort or to use on shamblers. (which is a shame because it has the potential to be an incredible weapon for gameplay due to it's unique limitations).

i didn't get the SNG in the map, so i didn't get to see whether nerfing it's accuracy actually accomplishes anything or not. i hope to get a chance to play through some old iD maps tomorrow (and maybe some custom ones that don't require mods) to see. i'm thinking maybe ceremonial circles would give some more interesting combat. any other suggestions?

monster dodging: this i actually really really liked! finally a monster that dodges, but doesn't result in an automatic miss! i positively despised Unreal's AI because it had psychic-dodge. if the AI decided to dodge your ASMD (hit-scan), you were guaranteed to miss because the monster would dodge as soon as your crosshair moved over it (maybe even before, i think the check was not just the crosshair, but a radius around it.... or it felt that way anyway, which is essentially the same when it comes down to it).
it's handled here well. most of the time, i hit what i aimed for but every so often i'd get a dodge, but i *never* felt cheated out of a kill. i suspect you are using a system similar to unreal's dodge. i guess the reason i don't mind it is because it's just not a very fast dodge. i'll miss if i'm slow or off center, not just because it dodged.

on overall weapon poweruppage, i don't really get what's going on here.
it means they die faster and so do you. but it also means you are reducing engagement time with monsters.
this means they are depending on their AI more because they have less time to shoot at you. something to keep in mind.

voreballs are wierd now. i'm not sure if i like it or not as the old voreball tracking code itself was tricksy in a way. (a good way).
while iD's choice to only update the tracking every 0.3 seconds was probably done to save on calculations per frame, it had the added side effect that ducking behind a wall at the last minute was futile.
the new voreballs seem to behave like drunk missiles and are erratic and confusing. (this may just be something to get used to).

that's it for now. i don't know how to make FQ run at higher audio frequencies so i just leave it at the 11khz.

if you want a rundown, i'd say i've neutral, leaning towards positive. there's some quality stuff in here. there's just also a lot of chaff. 

A percentage might work. I just like knowing how far I am into a level. It allows me to conserve ammo and such and play with some intelligence.

i actually find this disturbing. do many players do this? 

Well, there's really no other way of knowing how close you are to the end. When the monster count is running low, I know I'm getting near the end and I can stop hording cells and rockets and open up a little.

It gives my virtual world some boundaries and I, personally, enjoy that. I don't know how other players feel though. 

yes I do. 

oh well I was suppose to be in the team, but my time at work and at home don�t let me do nothing... and honestly I�m not liking many stuff in the mod :\ maybe is just be but in the demo I totally lost the feeling that I�m playing Quake... and this in the major reason why I play Quake after 12 years...

To play other game there are a lot of new ones with much better graphics, I don�t like the healthy the shields some of the sounds :| I think the feeling of Quake was lost :\

I�m a little sad to say this because there are some people in this project that I personally like a lot, and that I should be contribution not destroying but that�s the way I�m feeling

:(

I think that the project is not going in the right direction... I still think that can be tweaked to the right one... let�s see what happened... some items don�t fit at all... the remake should take the Quoth direction that was a great mod! the bad thing about Quoth is that most of mappers tend to make Quoth to hard...

Mostly only necros and Kell Quoth maps are fun as well with lots of good weapons to blast the evil Quoth beasts.

In short words �Quoth fits much more with a Quake Remake then this mod�� sorry :( 

Criticism Resistance:
Only when I'm not sure what's being complained about. For example, you should never see a health vial and a Q2 object near each other.

Not fitting together:
The Q2 stuff that's in there is because we don't have proper models yet - they need to become more Quake as opposed to Strogg.

Map lighting:
Ok

Quaketastic has a 50MB limit, but the upload was ~65.

Shotgun:
I think I get what you mean here, but one thing you seem to miss is the huge spread actually serves a purpose, forcing the player to get closer to the enemy in order to kill it. So you spend less time doing damage to the enemy, but more time manouvering - least that's the intention.

Roaming:
Yeah, there is. There's a few other systems in there as well, like grouping and randomised placement on map load.

Npc's:
The way I used them was to just kill them - they're mostly props that drop a backpack when shot in this map.

Shotgun Explosion:
Noted.

Lightning Knockback:
Like the overpowered RL this is WIP. The weapons now follow a toolbox format - so a SG in some instances will be better than another weapon - or much worse. The Knockback allow lightning jumping, but needs to be fine tuned. It was introduced so that the holdoff from using the weapon would be less, but we need to rethink this maybe since it's not supposed to be a movement item.

SNG:
This has much reduced accuracy but also monster piercing - making it a mid-range horde killer weapon.

Voreballs:
The Vore is not yet remade, but now uses our homing code. This makes it less predictable but also easier to avoid, like the aforementioned right angle turning of the id1 version. What's missing is the raft of other Vore abilities - like being able to summon multiple voreballs if the player dodges out of sight and then hurl the lot.

Trinca, be specific - say what you don't like.

This is a very early ALPHA version. We want to hear gripes. 

We will be thick headed about some because func_ is our toughest audiance.

And some will hate some changes no matter what.