I just watched the YouTube video and it looks like a fun little MP map. 

Extra_spirit ... you know because we've got that other one ...

First, I have to say that you get the idea of comprehensive DM mapping for Q1 far beyond most. You test in Quake. You test in Quakeworld. You test with bots. You do .loc files. You provide .way files. You open source your shiznit.

You provide ever oodle of evidence that you "get it".

Except ...

Single player maps are where it is at!

No amount of dm map making (well with the possible exceptions of aerowalk by preacher, aggressr by tyrann, ultrav by [I forgets]) can match the greatness of a high quality q1 single player release.

Have you considered the idea of stepping up to the next level and making a Q1 [or even Quoth) single player release.

[Quoth is ok, there is an improved open source clone of that mod that has been made but not released.]

This isn't a critique of this map ... which I have not played, but rather the critique of the idea of generic new DM maps (no matter how great the experience is.] 

I would love to see a singleplayer release, even a small one, from such a talented mapper :) 

I still play way more MP than SP and I enjoy making tourney maps so I don't fully agree with everything you said there, hehe. Most likely it's true from both the technical and design perspectives, but nothing's more exciting and fun than playing 1vs1 against somebody who's on your skill level for me.

But I also love the SP maps released here, I've been playing many of them during the last few weeks. And yes, I've actually been thinking about a SP map lately, maybe together with Shadow). But this is gonna take some time I guess so don't expect results too soon. ;)

Btw: the last SP map I made was for Doom II when I was in 7th grade or something I guess. 

Poor texture work. Apparently, properly scaled and aligned bricks and tiles are still too much to ask for even today. But still, at least the most obvious unaligned textures like the wizmet rivets could have been aligned here. I do like the theme, though. It's very arcane Quakey.

There are a few brushwork niggles, too, but nothing serious. The colored didn't seem to work right in Fitzquake, it was all Disco Crate�.
Lots of files in the zip, quite messy, but I guess it's good you provided everything necessary (loc files and such), and already in the right folders.

Haven't played it against opponents, so I can't really comment on the layout, but judging from an offline run-through and the youtube video, it seems fast and tight, with nice trick jump possibilities. Not sure about the ammo. Small nail boxes only (plus the regular NG which is useless in DM) but at the same time 5 rockets next to the RL - considering Quake's weapon (un)balance, I think it would have been better to at least make sure the player has enough nails should he be forced to use them. And rather another SNG instead of the NG.

Anyway, give me a few hours - I have something cooking here. ;) 

I notest one thing

RA near 100%?

the first player that control Ra will win match... is just a matter of timming :\ 

Well Baker, "Selbst ist der Mann" (as spirit would say - the dfsp one anyway), the proper response to your dismissal of new DM maps.

This being a GPL release allows every last random person to hack in a quick single player mode like I did here. Problem solved. ->

http://negke.quaddicted.com/files/spirit1dm3sp.zip

While at it, I also fixed the most blatant visual and technical issues. The DM settings are unchanged, so the map will play exactly like the original release - the only exceptions are a few additional clip brushes and the step behind the MH which I expanded so it runs from wall to wall now.

It was kind of fun. This would even make a nice community event where a bunch of people take a DM map and add SP - interesting to see what people come up with in such a restricted environment - different paths and gameplay setups etc.

GG spirit. :) 

negke sent a dm scrap of yours for a speemap event :) 

@negke: Nice release there, definitely less bloated than mine. ;)

And on your first post: good observations, you're right with many things I guess. Yeah some textures may be misaligned, I don't notice this anymore after 100s of test runs. Others always have to point me at stuff like that, seems the testers didn't notice it or didn't care. Scaling of the bricks is a matter of taste I guess, I like them. The brushwork of the rocks sucks & I know it, true.

Ammo placement may not be the best, seems to works for FFA though. I did this hastily, I'll keep it in mind and try to improve it on my next map. Had to finish this one.

@Trinca: I guess 100% is MH, right? If so: the way from YA=>MH (via the JP) is actually much shorter than RA=>MH but I (and one of the testers) also noticed the problem you mentioned. It is the reason why there is neither RL/LG nor ammo for one of these powerful weapons on the 2 shortest routes RA<=>MH (one of them requires a RJ at SNG) so you are forced to leave it. I also introduced the broken floor at MH and lowered the RA platform a bit to make this way longer. A player trying to dominate the map by holding this area also has no chance to keep the down player from getting YA+GL+RL+ammo. From the games I played so far I think I solved the problem. (And in Quake, the player with better item timing wins I guess, which is fine.)

@the rest of the world: if you don't want all the stuff in the zip replace '.zip' with '.bsp' in the d/l link. ;)

Thanks for giving the map a try to all of you. 

@negke: forget my comment on you SP version, when I first tried I got a 404 and thought you had been joking. I gotta say what you made of it is pretty impressive, great job! :)

So... errrm, yes. Baker: I am the co-author of a Quake SP map now I guess. ;)

Bad thing is I only found 1/3 secrets on more or less my own map on first try. oO 

I don't play DM so I have just checked the looks. I like the style of this map very much. It is tight but the scale seems just right. The architecture is simple and I really like it this way. 

first demo and death :)

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/spirit1_sp_tr.rar 

Was very tight on ammo and health, but I managed to survive. Found 0 secrets :(

The overall layout was good, as was the texture combos, but it didn't feel as "smooth" as a DM map. Maybe because of the SP gameplay?

An enjoyable diversion nonetheless. Cheers! 

Glad you like it. Now you see that SP mapping isn't so much different from making MP maps. In a way, anyhow. Btw. the map even has skill settings. And speedrun potential as Trinca tried to demonstrate...

A DMSP-like mode (monster deathmatch) would have been great here, too. An ideal transition between MP and SP.

generic: Play with "deathmatch 1". The map is smooth as a DM map, but it might not seem so in SP because I reduced the connectivity. There's a also a bunch of additional stuff for jumps that I turned into func_walls which only appear in DM.


The map grew on me as I polished it up. Like I said before, the theme/style is cool, so it's a pity the most glearing issues didn't get sorted out for the final version. The testers usually don't see/care, because they focus on the gameplay - which shows; I'm convinced the map plays nicel - but often don't have an eye for detail. For the next time, it wouldn't hurt to just post the beta here as well (unless you did and we ignored it).

By scaling bricks etc. I meant compensating Quake's texture stretching on angled surfaces, e.g. on 45� faces the x scale has to be lowered to 0.75 or 0.725 to make the texture look normal again. Of course this requires a lot of additional aligning work. It's a 'problem' in many maps, hence my comment (in case I came of as a dick - it wasn't exclusively aimed at you). 

Baker is wrong, unsurprisingly.

Firstly in the history of Quake, DM has been much more highly regarded than SP.

Secondly people should map for what they feel inspired for.

I prefer SP to DM, but I also prefer a DM mapper making DM because that's what inspires him, rather than fitting in with SP because people tell him to.


P.S. This has like a billion files in the zip... 

I didn't try to demonstrate nothing :p I saw a possible way and try :|

must try again :p 

I'm doing both DM and SP mapping for the project I'm in, and I think that while brushwork is obviously brushwork, a lot of things are pretty different between them.

DM: almost no details, nothing to get stuck on, visibility comes before cool lighting, a place to kill other players in (ffa) and control items (duel). Players must be given several routes between items.

SP: Atmosphere, details, lighting, immersion, cool architecture that can serve entirely decorative purposes, hunting keys and switches and other interactive things, traps and puzzles... a place to explore and be awed (ideally). And personally I find that an overall linear layout seems to work best (I tried opening maps up completely and spawning the player in the middle - the result was that there wasn't a good sense of progress and many things were harder to set up).

I think they're different worlds, really, and require a different mindset to create. 

Recorded a small speedrun.

http://mandelmassa.net/temp/spirit1dm3sp_mandel.dz 

It's not a first-run and strictly speaking it is not even a demo... anyway! If you're bored watch me play spirit1dm3sp. 

fuckkkkkkkkkkkkk died in second run... 42/47 :\ anyone want demo? 

I really liked this map, I sure hope we get to see it in QuakeWorld Servers like XS4ALL Soon. 

@Mandel: Nice. Are there any standard settings that people use to make those speed runs? Because both in your video and in other speedrun videos (e.g. Quake Done Quicker) the physics/movement speed seems to be altered.

@QuakeWarrior: Seeing the map on QW servers would be cool but I'm not part of the QW scene and the map didn't get that much attention at the quakeworld.nu forums so far. So I dunno... 

Honestly dfsp_spirit I played QW from 1997 to 2003 and stop it because born my first time and didn't had much time to play anymore...

even in 2003 new maps wasn't much welcome... since these days only saw two mappers getting success in the scene!

Zaka and Tiddles and both of then are really really awesome mappers, not that I'm saying to you should quit... no way! mapping is fun but is very hard (like 0,1% of possibility of success in the scene) to a new map be played a lot in qw.

99% of the games are in TB3 

first KID arghhhh 

the physics/movement speed seems to be altered.

do you test in qw vs nq? the movement speed is slightly faster in qw clients.