I thought Batman Begins was the best action hero film ever and one of the best in any action genre, mostly because it portrayed the fantastical subject matter in a gritty, well-thought-out and altogether convincing way, something which is usually and critically lacking in sci-fi / action films.

I'm very much looking forward to TDK. 

it was but TDK is better :) 

Shambler said: "mostly because it portrayed the fantastical subject matter in a gritty, well-thought-out and altogether convincing way, something which is usually and critically lacking in sci-fi / action films."

Except for the... technology :) 

compare BB to any other movie of a similar genre (or even previous batman movies), and it's a lot more believable/less retarded.

seeing TDK friday night, cannot wait.

Nolan and Bale rule. 

I seem to remember some of the Batman technology was half-explained / justified in the film?? Something about military tech or something?? That itself seemed unusual, and good, for this style of film.

P.S. Is Wall-E any good? 

Best movie this year by far, and not likely to lose the spot either. Whereas Burton brought his "style of film" (the 'ironic warped fairlytale' - which over the years I've realized that I really don't like) to Batman, Nolan has finally had the chance to bring his style (complex scripts full of manipulation and double crosses) to it. Nolan's movies are always strong because of the scripts he and his brother write, and this is one of his best. You are always in the middle of something, the good guys (and the audience) can barely keep up (this will demand multiple viewings). A lot is always implied to be going on in the background. Nolan also fixes the problems with action/fight scenes in Batman Begins - the fights and action scenes here are great. Furthermore, he isn't worried about maintaining any kind of comfortable stability - (what you get in, say spiderman - all three movies were predictable because of this). This is a world where anything can, and will, happen.

Ledger's performance is fucking amazing. I hadn't seen anything with him in it before, but this role is brilliant - arguably even more brilliant than Javier Bardem in No Country or Daniel Day-Lewis in There Will Be Blood last year. I actually think he IMPROVED upon the comic-book version of the Joker. He is totally credible as an utterly unrealistic, bizarre, psychotic character (like Bardem), who somehow exists whether you like it or not. 

"This is a world where anything can, and will, happen."

pretty much my thoughts from above :

"From very early on it establishes that the threats are real and the stakes are high, something which serves it very well during the second half where it feels like anything can happen."

Ledger's been great before but because it was a 'gay cowboy movie', no one cared :)

It really is a cross between a Batman film and say Michael Mann, particularly Heat.

I thought Eckhart was very very good too. 

was the use of humor. A film this dark needs some comic relief, and it wasn't just the joker but other characters occasionally who did this. I mean, I love dark, deranged, nihilistic films, and this is by far the darkest "blockbuster" I've ever seen, but it is impressive that they were able to incorporate moments of humour or hope, where were all the more poignant because of their rarity.

Nolan picks good films to be influenced by - Blade Runner on Batman Begins, and now Heat on TDK. The Blade Runner influence on BB wasn't as much as I would have liked - I'd LOVE to see them delve into the neo-futuristic Azrael-Batman storylines or even The Dark Knight Returns, but even so it was cool. Heat's influence can be seen all over TDK, and TDK captures the brilliance of Heat very well. The only thing it doesn't do is capture the mafia's perspective as Heat did. I always thought it would be interesting if an anti-criminal hero movie could be combined with something like The Godfather where the criminals have their own perspective. In TDK, obviously, the Joker has no rules, but there are other criminals who do have rules and even ideals (the guy at the start, for example). Falconi in BB was good, it would be nice to see this angle explored more (although, at 2.5 hours of jam-packed implication-exploration there is no room for anything else).

This movie is probably impossible to top, and so it might be advisable for Nolan to quit while he's ahead. That said, what I'd like to see is Nolan cap off the trilogy with something even better (and continued critical acclaim), and then hand it off to another director with a TOTALLY DIFFERENT vision (perhaps Darren Arofonsky, who was Nolan's main rival in being director of the rebooted Batman series). I'd love to see Bane done properly, but he's nothing without the story elements attached to him. In an uneconomic, perfect world, Nolan would end Part 3 with Bane's victory over batman, and Arofonsky would start a new series with an entirely different style, as Azrael acts as Batman while Wayne recuperates. 

Yeah, I dunno what they can do in the next one. It would almost have to be Poison Ivy as the main villain, I don't know how they could do Mr. Freeze or Penguin. Manbat would be cool, but unbelievable in this setting. 

would be my guess.

tronyn,

there's Heat but there's also the classic noir feel which Nolan's obviously a fan of (Memento and Insomnia both had this too) and which is well suited to this because the Batman comics started out of that same genre really.

As for the trilogy, they all signed on for 3 at the start, and I do think this is one case where some thought has gone into where each film will be generally heading. This doesnt end like BB which signalled a sequel but its not hard to see where the third is going to head into. 

Nolan specifically stated that he will never include penguin (or robin, thank god!) because the character is "too far-fetched." Now, the reimagined, new penguin (an eccentric arms dealer) seems totally appropriate for nolan's universe, but apparently he thinks there is no way to make this character work in his batman universe. He will never include manbat, clayface, or poision ivy - any character that involves superpowers, mutation, or even anything beyond what a normal human COULD DO, I think, he will leave out. No explicit scifi or fantasy will be present in the new series.

In my view the best villain would be Bane (Batman's unholy trinity is Ra's Al Ghul (uber-moral), Joker (anti-moral) and Bane (amoral). I'd love to see someone like Eric Bana play an absolutely ruthless, unsympathetic, Nietzschean power-driven psychopath. If anyone could match Ledger's performance in creating a powerful, unique, anti-Batman perspective, that would be it.

PS Nitin: I agree with the noir feel, Following especially had that... and it is as you say very appropriate. 

Watched Chinatown yesterday and while I really enjoyed it, the ending completely and utterly ruined it for me. 

has a great ending! Wouldnt be my second favorite movie without it :) 

Haven't seen it yet, but as for views on the next villains, I was assuming Riddler/Poison Ivy/Bane/Black Mask.

Given Ivy is apparently out due to 'super powers', my money is on Bane/Riddler (Bane+Black Mask wouldn't work since they're both basically disturbed gang leaders).

Making Bane dumb muscle in the 4th film was one of the greatest crimes in comic book adaptations, and Nolan has shown he knows his Batman with these two films (Ra's and Scarecrow... fsck yeh).

In an uneconomic, perfect world, Nolan would end Part 3 with Bane's victory over batman, and Arofonsky would start a new series with an entirely different style, as Azrael acts as Batman while Wayne recuperates.

Fscking YES. Shame it won't happen. (Although it is a bit too close to the Fall storyline, but would be a brilliant way to please the bat fans) 

Bane/Ridder could work. Scarface *could* work, but I would seriously hope they wouldn't go there, since Scarface is one of the stupidest enemies ever. Who the fuck would ever follow a talking puppet? Catwoman could work, and possibly move into her own spinoff, but I imagine they'd want to stay away from Catwoman after the Halle Berry incidient.

Batman needs more ninjas! 

I think catwoman is pretty likely. 

"untraceable"

really good film. gritty in places but has a good ending. excellent ending infact - truely inspired I thought 

i'm watching Underworld, and it's making me really angry at every script writer in hollywood, and the guys accepting and filming those scripts. 

The goddamnawesome vampires use cheap plastic nokia cells. 

Ultraviolet is worse. Much worse. 

there's a sequel too :)

and a prequel coming. 

Hancock

Uh, right. Has some promise, some moments and a lot of disjointed 'meh'.

Michael Clayton

Good. Was probably a little too tired when we watched it to pay the required amount of attention, but clearly a good film. Had slightly more believable corporate nastiness than many other films/books...


I'm sure I watched something else recently, but can't remember what. Obviously not that great :) 

I mean, it could be Van Helsing!

And clearly TDK is going to own hard. Not out here for a few more days though... 

Michael Clayton. Not a really great film, but quite good. All the others complained about the tempo though, and i think i'd agree, the first time watch dragged a bit until you got to the meat of the story. 

is very very good. Theres one big plot hole but apart from that, theres class acting and writing at work.