yes metl and preach are right - the nails are actually too high above the gun, and the sort order totally threw me off.

Also I am a retard for not reading metl's post correctly. 

Although this is entirely unfair to Kinn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbd3E6tK2U 

I seem to be going round in circles and I not sure what which package I should be using. I want to make a small test Q1 monster with a couple of test animation frames and I am not sure which model package / conversion tools I should be using.

I download the Qme3_1 and it seems broken in so many ways. It is handy for extracting stuff and seeing how the mdl fit together but not much use for a good workflow on creating a model.

I download gmax and preach's md3tomdl convertor and it seems like a good solution I can work with, but I have a ton of questions about what things go where. So bare with me while I ask lots of stupid questions!

I can't import a md3 model into gmax? I want to look at the structure of the md3 in gmax (what stuff goes where) and the importer does not appear in the import menu? I have downloaded the file (q3-md3.ms) but I am not sure where it is suppose to go in the gmax file structure. I tried plugins but nothing changes on the import menu.

The md3 format supports head/torso/feet layout (aka q3) but I assume q1 is a single format (all model) is this correct? Should I be building my models as one mesh?

In Gmax I create the model/uv unwrap/etc then how do I setup the animations? Do I create bones and tweak each frame? How do I store the different frames? Do you work from a T pose model first and then tweak everything? (If I had an example in gmax I could see how it works, but I can't load preach's example ogre)

Any help or pointers on what I should do would be awesome. Thanks 

If so, give Lunaran a shout: he has written a maya -> .mdl tool 

The MD3 import is a pain to figure out, it's written in maxscript.

Put q3-md3.ms in D:\gmax\Scripts\Startup
Then if you click the hammer icon in the right hand panel (tab 6), then press the MAXScript button. MD3 import should then appear in the Utilities dropdown.

md3tomdl will combine multiple Q3 meshes into a single MDL file, but not very intelligently. The skin vertices of each mesh will be laid on top of each other in order to reduce down to a single skin. Similarly the animations are constructed by taking frame 1 from each mesh and combining those poses to make frame 1 of the mdl, all the frame 2s into frame 2, etc. I don't think I respected tags at all when combining either.*

If you're building your own model it makes sense to keep everything in one mesh because that's what the end product will be.

The standard way to animate in gmax is using the Skin modifier. You construct a set of bones for your mesh, then apply the skin modifier to the mesh. In the panel for the skin modifier you can add bones as controllers, assign vertices to them either by setting envelopes for the bones or by painting weights - google for "gmax skin modifier" and I'm sure a suitable tutorial will be there.

I've packaged up the latest version of the ogre, along with all the other bits of the pipeline (the skin, the batch file, the script for md3tomdl, the md3 output). It's at
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapterhonour/ogrepipe.zip
If you can't get that to load, let me know what kind of error you get and I can try to diagnose it. I expect the skin won't work straight off because gmax stores an absolute path for it...



*The problem is that you can't make the conversion more intelligent automatically. The number of decisions you need to send to the conversion tool is so great I'd spend most of the time writing a parser in C++ to read the config file. It seems smarter to write the tool in a scripting language, but I'm aborting my attempt with perl because even I find it awkward to work with and I wrote the damn thing. Python or Lua next... 

@Kinn, I don't have maya I only have LW9 which is too new for all the MD3 plugins to work. It does seem to connect well with Qme (3.1 version) but I prefer to try the max route for the moment.

@Preach, thanks :) That does make perfect sense now, I was wondering how you fit the ogre together. I will experiment with a single frame for the moment and see if I can the process working before attempting any proper monster model. Also is there a hotkey in gmax to bring up the UV edit screen? I can't find an easy way to get to the UV screen. 

I'm sure there's a shortcut for it, or a way to create one, there's a dialog box that lets you change all the shortcuts to your liking. Personally I just click the button on the modifier, it's not so bad. 

I can't believe how anyone has the patience to create models for Q1. I created a model and UV mapped in LW 9 (I like the interface and tools) and cannot get it into Q1.

Qme (3.0 & 3.1)
LWO import only takes mesh, totally ignores all UV data.
DXF import, mesh only but format does not support UV.
3DS import, mesh only. I can't get the UV data to be accepted. It could be the shitty exporter in LW but I did get the 3DS file imported back into LW (not really a good proof format is right) I tried importing the 3ds file into gmax and mesh only.

So I am totally stumped how anyone can get any UV stuff into Qme. The package and pipeline seem broken to me.

Any hints on how other people create models with Qme? Is this why preach wrote the md3 route ignoring qme? 

ah ok, so this was the process you were talking about in your mail. :)

first, qme cannot accept standard uvw data.

what you would need to do is to split the mesh up the same way it is split up in your uvw.

if you could export a dxf with uvw and import it into gmax, then use a gmax md3 exporter to export an md3 which you can then use preach's converter on, you could create a mdl file with the single frame BUT with your uvw mapping preserved.

after this, you could export the rest of the frames as lwos and IMPORT (not open) them into your existing model. 

sorry, first, i forgot dxf doesn't support uvw.
so you'd use 3ds format.

the above long process is only needed for the initial frame to set up the skin mapping.

once that's done, the rest will go in fairly easily. just write a script (lightwave can do this? i'm not sure, but i am assuming so since it's a high end 3d editing suite) to export all your frames as seperate lwo files.

the only danger is that during all the importing and exporting, the vertex order could get rearranged which will prevent you from importing the rest of the frames. 

I did it! I got my model from LW to Q1! Now I can plan getting all the bones and animation sorted.

LW 3DS exporter
Gmax Special 3DS importer (should be default)
Save in MD3 format (special plugin again)
Use preach md3tomdl
(can't get Photoshop to save in the right PCX skin format for preach tool, have to replace in Qme)
Open in QMe and it looks good :P

FINALLY!!! :D:D

Got several options for animations, DXF import into Qme or setup bones in Gmax not sure which at this point, will have to experiment. At least I can create all the meshes and UV stuff in LW. 

I don't have lightwave so I can't test it but this claims to be a md3 export plugin for lightwave. This would let you skip the gmax stages of that process.

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~mbristol/md3/index.html

PS: if you export the skin from QMe you should be able to get it into the required 8 bit format for md3tomdl.

PPS: if you can cut QMe out of the process you get to keep nice vertex normals for your model! 

PPS: if you can cut QMe out of the process you get to keep nice vertex normals for your model!

This is what was the final nail in the coffin for QME for me. 

Cool idea on the skin PCX format, I don't need to touch the package anymore. :)
The downside of the 3DS format is that the UV verts have to be un-welded before export. Is there an easy way in gmax to weld all UV verts together? 

I think the best you can do is apply the unwrap uvw modifier, select all the vertices manually and click the weld selected button. It's probably automatable with the maxscript stuff but it's not that much work by hand. Don't forget that the vertices do often get separated in the final mdl file as well, so do check if welding is helping the final output. 

For some reason I have 1200 skin/frame verts in my model for something that started with @160 (used the standard ogre model as a test) Not sure why, maybe it is the export 3DS process not sure.

The LW->MD3 exporter plugin is too old, won't load in the current version. (typical for LW TBH) I did find a LW to MD3 external program converter but the documentation is gone (website link dead) Might experiment with it. The 3DS route seems to be causing problems. 

when you are exporting, make sure you only export the mesh, and not any bones, helpers or anything else.
bones (at least in max) count as mesh objects when exported in some formats. 

That is too many vertices, 1000 is the number you need to get models down to in order for them to load in glquake...

To check if you can fix it you may want to try a weld on the mesh vertices as well as the skin vertices in gmax. Obviously though if you can pin down what's splitting the vertices and avoid it that's best in the long run. 

actually yeah, thinking about it... that's sounds way too high for just bones/helpers. not sure what else it could be aside from what preach just said. 

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Lightwave/Exporting_3DS
"The reason is a limitation of the 3ds format not supporting discontinuous uv coordinants"

Just got to weld all the stuff together in GMAX and now I have a model with 402 verts and 410 triangles :D My very first ogre, just got to test it in game, sort out animations, write ogre script and fix the skin and .. way too many things to do! 

have you tried importing additional frames after that first one? 

Don't forget about http://www.icculus.org/qshed/qwalk/ 

i still haven't had a chance to try that out. 

@necros, I was planning to animate the model with bones in gmax or maybe LW. This is something I have not done before and I am curious to see the process. I have not decided yet which route to take, I need to test which is easier. I tried a couple of frame imports with Qme and the mesh was all warped. I really want to avoid using Qme at all because of the vertex problems. 

the nice thing about doing a model for quake is that when you animate it, you can use absolutely ANYTHING you want.
from basic IK to crazy scripted constraints/controllers.
you can use any modifiers that don't change vertex# or order (ie: you couldn't use boolean operations).
but you can use morphs (scripted morphs!), lookats, you can follow a specific vertex, etc...
or you can just use biped and get everything you need for normal animation and add onto that.