My view, as stated in an argument less than 2 weeks ago before Kinn himself (or so we THINK ITS HIM - lol) showed up, is that Marcher remains the best map design in a single bsp file ever made, and it will remain that forever. Say some person comes along who is even more ambitious than Kinn was in Marcher, he'll just use BSP2. Out of 1500 bsp files marcher.bsp wins.

If you talk about the gods, and draw pictures of them on the wall, make youtube videos about them, argue which of their achievements was best... they just might.... descend onto the surface of the earth one last time (lol jokes taking it too far... but it IS awesome to see Kinn show up 2 weeks after we had this discussion about how no one would ever top Marcher). 

I can understand that you don't want to do anything like marcher again - it must have been a crazy amount of work to make it perfect. I'm just happy to see you return to Quake, not in the least because it means more new releases for me to play. 

Marcher remains the best map design in a single bsp file ever made
This is debatable. What makes Marcher stand out is not so much a sophisticated design than its huge scale while still fitting into the standard bsp limits. Besides, before switching to BSP2, there's still the 2xBSP1 option. 

2xBSP1: that is it? 

somebody should make a remake of the Marcher! 

Marcher remains the best map design in a single bsp file ever made

It's this kinda stuff that drives people away from making short and sweet stuff :/

"It plays okay, but it's kinda small, not as good as this map!" 

Tronyn - blimey - I'm extremely honoured by your comments.

Marcher was just an exercise in excess. I did not set out to make a statement like "this is how big I think all maps should be!" - it just kept growing, and at the end of it I realised that it was all a bit pointless. By that I mean well before the end its construction, it had stopped being fun to build, and if you're not having fun what's the point mapping?

A couple of things happened in the last few weeks that prompted me to fire up radiant again - basically I was reminded of what it was that I found fun about mapping; and none of it involved making big flamboyant monstrosities - there are far better mediums than Quake for that kind of creativity now - so I'm keeping things small (well, medium), and keeping it fun (for me).

Btw, where can I read about this BSP2 stuff and does it need a custom engine? Just curious - there's no way I'll be using it. 

nothing one should be excited about just yet. it needs a custom engine and there is only one at the moment and it is deeply in development from what I know.



crap, how will I handle bsp2 at quaddicted? it is not much different from other limit breaking maps for the user and even easier to support engine-wise, correct? 

Downloads:

http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/sp-demo-3-release/

Mh's blog:

http://mhquake.blogspot.com/

Basically it bumps PC requirement to ~Doom3 whilst removing all map limitations or putting them so high that it doesn't really matter any more.

It's optimised for running big stuff, so would work well on a Marcher level, or several such areas with little to no vis blocking - if thats what you were doing ;)

BSP2 should be pretty easy to support yeah, just matters when LH, Spike etc. feel like doing it, most likely when the tech is more mature.

In any case it runs perfectly well now, and is in development - meaning Mh is needing feedback on features and so on. 

In that case, it won't affect me as my stuff is intended for WinQuake. 

i've not even been able to run winquake since i first upgraded to xp.. 10 years ago? i've always kept it in my quake folder though cos i use the icon for .qc files :) 

Kinn, do you still have the sources for Bastion and Marcher? 

I would be interested in those to test my editor's performance. 

Sleepy, if you're looking for maps with a large number of brushes, you can also try my 768 source, it has around 11000. I don't know if the sources of Ricky's base maps, especially the RMQ one, are available, but those should be extreme as well. 

Thanks, looks like the editor runs that map absolutely smoothly. But can you give me the texture wad? There seems to be a glitch with the textures and I'd like to check it out. 

I would have to extract it from the BSP. Can you do that? TexMex or similar on OS X? 

Maybe I can get it to run in my Win7 VM 

That worked fine. Thanks! 

Kinn, do you still have the sources for Bastion and Marcher?

I'm sure I must have somewhere, but right now I dunno where the hell they are - probably on a cd stashed in some obscure cupboard in an only partially explored area of my parent's house. I'll have a dig around next time I'm up there. 

That would be awesome, Kinn! 

to look at the qc src too! that q2 to q an infantry dude looks incredible. 

Yer led ana l

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu9V3Phfsf8&ob=av2n 

Is there enough interest (ie, any at all) for a map scrap dump + mapping project? Or maybe just a map scrap dump?

Even a small project emphasizing pretty set pieces out of scraps would be pretty cool. I know I've got plenty of half-finished maps and the like to provide if anyone is interested. 

I think some people already posted scraps in the GPL thread. Tronyn and czg have or had zip with a whole bunch of unfinished stuff. Mostly useless, but some nice bits, too.

I'm hesitant with advocating a scrap dump, because I fear necros might just throw out all his unfinished stuff, and that must not happen! ;) 

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=1&start=21033&end=21038