I think a lot of it may just come down to some (imo dumb) fantasy about being an actual soldier because it's more gritty and cool if it is superficially realistic. I've had this discussion with one of my housemates quite a lot. He's really into the 'real soldiers and tactics' thing. Except he's not, he just wants the appearance of it.

A lot of it is just armchair commandos. Like you get armchair ninjas who talk about x/y/z martial art being more deadly than another. You listen to a lot of CoD players they will sound just like the worst D&D or WoW players you know, talking about bullet spreads and damage patterns etc etc.

In the end I feel there is something more laudable about standard fantasy stuff. Okay it's just as cliche but at least it's got some more imagination to it. It's not trying to recreate some clean and glamous version of current armed conflict :p

As an aside about the superifical realism, it seems most developers believe the way to be realistic is by enfeeblement. Make the player weak and pathetic = realistic. Okay he can't sprint more than two feet without a rest, he can't drop more than a meter without breaking a hip etc. Really with the complete lack of capacity you have to avoid damage in modern shooters, regenerating health is an absolute necessity if you want non-hardcore players to ever play it. So funny that people accept something so unrealistic but want all the rest :p 

Players tend to demand realism, whilst developers know that it's crap.

No developer wants to make a realistic game, I think. Typically the investors just want to further their IP or feed off the IP of another, not make a game. 

Have you seen The Man From Nowhere?

It's dubbed, and Asian and new.

Really good, u should watch it. It's quite cliched but that doesn't matter for what it is.
Best movie I've seen for ages and ages. 

I agree. Recently played COD4 and the whole war/weaponry pr0n aspect is particularly puerile and irritating. No you're not a fucking trained marine you are a teenage kid sitting in a chair playing computer games....twats...

By contrast, Crysis and Bioshock have me way more captivated and way less irritated because they are properly escapist entertainment. 

No developer wants to make a realistic game, I think. Typically the investors just want to further their IP or feed off the IP of another, not make a game.

Having seen interviews and stuff with the people who made CoD4 and stuff, I think they really like making that shit tbh.
Might just be because they know they'll make a shitload of money out of it. Or at least, assumed they would before activision pulled the lollerskate lawyers on them. 

Some devs are really into the whole military thing, I've worked with quite a few. 

it's on order :) 

I'd just enlist...








getting a continue might be a challenge though 

...that slow player movement can be traced to the limitations of consoles...helps to avoid what would be an incredibly awkward aiming system on a console.
I don't think this is the case at all. Developers wanted real-world, realistically scaled environments, and so they slowed the player down, so he actually feels grounded in that world.

Tiny FOV also probably traces back to limited console hardware processing power
Nope, again it was for realism. People don't see in fisheye IRL.

The push to create a more "realistic" shooter had nothing to do with consoles - the same thing would have happened on PC if consoles were never invented.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate of realism in games at all. Most of the time it involves deliberately compromising some of the fun, and I don't really get the logic behind that.

Weapon limit
Yeah that might be more console-driven. Lack of buttons and all. Sounds logical.

Plot/cutscenes - hides lack of gameplay brought about by console hardware limitations (pretty graphics! Yeah!)
Not sure about this. Cinematics are usually expensive as shit. It's usually easier to generate 10 mins of gameplay that it is to make a 10 minute cinematic. 

I would say the cutscenes are shit. Mostly just a few NPC's talking in a room in a ship etc. 

I dunno, Halo has a pretty ridiculous jump height (and also feels super damn floaty). And if a super soldier can jump that high why not be able to run pretty fast too? There's a logical disconnect there that I can't reconcile.

As for tiny FOV - sure we don't see all that fisheye as, say, some extreme QuakeWorld configs. But then there are some incredibly simple things that could be done to make the game more 'realistic' like ... move the gun away from that awkward angle that it's always in. You know, where you're holding it right around your shoulder ... like a real soldier wouldn't. I don't see things like that happening, processor independent.

10 minutes of shit gameplay = 10 minutes of shit gameplay. We could discuss HalfLife 2 gameplay/cutscenes vs Call of Duty gameplay/cutscenes - it would be pretty interesting actually.

Weapon limit
Yeah that might be more console-driven. Lack of buttons and all. Sounds logical.

I'm glad that admist the mudslinging and name calling of the Thinly Veiled thread that some funcers are still able to hold a serious and honest tone while having disag... HEY WAIT A MINUTE!!! 

why is sm82 missing for quaddicted? 

I don't think it's entirely based around redesigning the FPS for consoles. But I think it had more of an impact than just the weapon limit thing. At the end of the day, you couldn't play a really fast game of Doom 2 or Painkiller on a pad. You just can't. You can't play Quakeworld on a pad either. Games have to be slower to make up for this weakness.

The other alternative is to have a very aggressive auto-aim but such a feature is even more looked down on :p

FoV is getting better due to widescreen, but in CoD the FoV is something like 65... I find it pretty hilarious to have such a zoomed view AND have ironsighting to zoom further :( 

re: FOV and consoles, i'm pretty sure i recall hearing exactly what zwif said from some dev interview. 

dunno, here's FP link: http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetquake/underworld/sm82.zip 

thx 

Errrr. I just tested by waving my hands either side of my head. I think my FOV for perception is about 160', admittedly we don't focus on the fringes, only perceive motion. 90 for general focus / vision would seem about right. 

Hope you're okay. Just watching the news. Giant walls of water and debris carrying houses, cars, and burning buildings are usually pretty worrying... 

But then there are some incredibly simple things that could be done to make the game more 'realistic' like ... move the gun away from that awkward angle that it's always in. You know, where you're holding it right around your shoulder ... like a real soldier wouldn't. I don't see things like that happening, processor independent.

Isn't that the whole point of the "aim-down-sights" thing that most FPS's do nowadays? So it feels like you're aiming down the sights instead of just firing from the hip, Clint Eastward-style, all the time? 

Pics of you measuring FOV in real life, or that didn't happen. 

Yeah, hope everything's good than.

Anyone else out there?

Apparently a tsunami will hit here at 5pm. 

Dev videos are incredibly carefully vetted. There is a script provided by the publishers.

I did one recently that was rejected, I suspect, for not being cool enough. 

Isn't that the whole point of the "aim-down-sights" thing that most FPS's do nowadays? So it feels like you're aiming down the sights instead of just firing from the hip, Clint Eastward-style, all the time?

I meant why is that still there at all ? Try positioning your hands so that you get the same position as a character in an fps -you basically have to tie your hand to your shoulder to get something like that. Why not just model the rest of the arm pointing straight out? That's my rant against the realism of FPSes. 

Check out the way you see the players arms in this game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtB_zqysPBA&playnext=1&list=PL0BACBD98FC8C199B

Anyone remember it? I remember thinking it was cool, but not having a good enough PC to run it smooth. 

I think the standard gun position in FPS games is fine, realistic or not. You've got to balance a few factors

"Does it look cool?" (yes)
"Does it get in the way of the view?" (no)

"Is it completely realistic?" should be way down the list.

As for aim-down-sights (ADS), I can take it or leave it, depending on the game really. It's a good mechanic if it's in there for a reason, i.e. if a game is mostly long range combat (e.g. CoD) having ADS on every gun probably makes sense; for something more corridory, maybe you only need ADS on one or two rifle-type weapons, if you need it at all.