Well, I know all of that, it is just that "racism" is nowadays used for any intolerance behavior.
I personally don't think white are superior to blacks, etc... I don't mind you skin color as soon as you show respect for the country that hosts you.. that's all.. so as said, if I'm charged as a racist for being intolerant with disrespectful people, so I am OK with that...

I guess everybody has the same conservatory behavior as RickyT described... it is not racism, it is preservation instinct... 

Being concerned about unlimited immigration and its consequences is not the issue here. We can see all over Europe and in other immigration countries that letting a large number of people into your country without any form of integration causes lots of problems. Yes, certain groups of people are more problematic than others. But this not what I was upset about. Trinca, you have repeatedly made very stupid and harsh comments about black people and arab people. That is racism. Your comments about homosexuals are bigot and homophobe. If what you really wanted tondo was to make a statement about the problems described above, you should take a bit more time and explain yourself better. Your english is good enough if you make an effort.

Guys, it is very important in this debate not to attribute certain behaviors of immigrants to race. These problems are mostly caused by cultural differences, a lack of education and our failure of properly integrating immigrants from the start. But closing our borders is not an option as we can see in the US. Of course we have to limit the numbers of people who come to Europe because there is a limit to the number of people we can integrate into our culture at any given time. Also, our culture and our systems have to adapt to this situations, and that too takes time. But we have to make an effort as well. These people are here, they are our neighbours and we have no option but to live with them. That requires an effort on both parts. Finger pointing and inflammatory statements help noone.

And stop calling people faggots, dude. It's the 21st century. Peace. 

That missed then. I'm an immigrant - literally.

I'm the minority over here. Complaining about immigrants taking jobs or whatever just means you should be doing your own better.

It's a lot easier to piss and moan about others when you should be looking after your own shit. Them being a different creed is an easy excuse, for simple minds.

I was back in my home town a month ago (Bradford) and left on the day a bunch of white supremacists were busing in - the "English Defence League" what a fucking shower of idiots. Made me ashamed to be English seeing these fucking retards coming in from outside the city to protest or whatever the fucking plan was.

Pretty sure it was to stick the boot in some non-white English people.

Racism doesn't really bother me, but it's a symptom of moronic idiocy - which really pisses me off. 

...Also, our culture and our systems have to adapt to this situations, and that too takes time..

That's where I disagree: why should we particularly do some efforts ? When you visit somebody, are you behaving like if you were still "at home" ? I hope not, I tend to respect my host, and not forcing him to accept my "differences".. The "differences" are there, but I at least try to adapt myself to my host, not the opposite: it make a serious difference IMHO...

Think about that point... 

Racism doesn't really bother me, but it's a symptom of moronic idiocy - which really pisses me off.

Classic!! 

there is middle ground to be reached though. If I visit someone and they act like an ass as if they're better than me simply because it is their house, I dont adapt myself to them. 

Just had a quick look at some of the premium maps in Q3Live - Focal Point is definitely one of the very best ones!! 

Maybe you should think about how WE ruin and rape the "third world" with our "fuck it, I want it now" lifestyle. It's not like immigrants usually think "hey, let's go exploit some rich country's social system" but "hey, I can't live here". 

how about JPL/Spirit go speedmap event? 50 brushes dont take much time... with all this time I think it was already done... 

I'm an immigrant too (even though I came to Aus at a very young age) 

You can continue living in your fantasy world or you can join us in the real world and try to find actual solutions. Do you really think you can stop the violence in your banlieues by telling the people to "respect their host"? This has not worked for the past 30 years neither in your country nor mine, why should it work now?

You do have a point of course: Immigrants must obey the laws of the country they live in and they should have respect for the culture. The best way to get them to do that is to give them education, and to make them learn the language of the country they live in. I strongly believe that our biggest failure as a host country was to think that the immigrants would leave Germany eventually. This is what certain political parties made their official policy on immigration up until the 90ies. As a result of this, we failed to educate the immigrants and more importantly, their kids. Instead, we left them to their own devices.

Obviously, I'm generalizing a lot here. I know that every time I say "the immigrants", I'm being hugely unfair to the large group of people who have immigrated from other countries and who do not cause any problems. I'm talking about the other group, though. 

problem is the uni student business in Melbourne. We have public funded tertiary education which is limited in numbers and then paid tertiary education with more numbers. A lot of overseas students can afford said paid education and the Victorian government is more than happy to take their money, but they fail to provide or even attempt to provide those overseas students with any integration education or support, leaving them to sort it out for themselves or hope that a student body will do so.

The result: universities divided into distinct cliques, groups and attitudes which then stay on after university. 

And your example only concerns people who already have a good education. Imagine how much worse it is among people who can hardly read or write. 

You can continue living in your fantasy world or you can join us in the real world and try to find actual solutions. Do you really think you can stop the violence in your banlieues by telling the people to "respect their host"? This has not worked for the past 30 years neither in your country nor mine, why should it work now?

I am not living in a fancy world man. BTW, the people that burn cars in our suburbs should be kicked-ass, and I am praying the day when our police will have right to shoot them as it is possible in the US... I guess you do not know what having your car burned by morons means: I do... so I can be angry about these stupid guys, and I didn't say there are immigrants, cause unfortunately they cannot be considered as immigrant as they all have a French ID card...

You do have a point of course: Immigrants must obey the laws of the country they live in and they should have respect for the culture.

This is the point indeed, we generally do respect other people cultures, but other people: do they respect our culture ? Not sure it is the case for all of them... and I am not finger-pointing any particular people there..

The best way to get them to do that is to give them education, and to make them learn the language of the country they live in.

Just to let you know that education is mandatory for all kids under 16 in France, wherever they come from. As soon as you live (even illegally) on the French territory, you can put your kids at school for free. As well we have a very good social care (even if you cannot pay, even if you are not a French citizen): don't tell me France is not doing integration efforts.

I strongly believe that our biggest failure as a host country was to think that the immigrants would leave Germany eventually.

Sorry but I don't understand the point, what Germany has to do with this ? Maybe could you just en-light us on this point please ? I don't understand at all what you meant...

Also, we are all immigrants: there were in the past several immigrant waves over France, but there were not that much cultural differences (e.g Italians, Spanishs, Portuges, etc...).. I personally have Scottish roots, my wife has Netherlands roots, my father borned in Algeria when it was a colony, and my mother is almost German... so I am more or less an immigrant...
New problems come with new immigration waves, and that's what we are facing today. And these immigration waves are very different, socially and culturally, from what we experimented 50 years ago... and again, I repeat what I said, it is just a small minority that discredit a complete community... 

The 3DS. If you've read the info, you know it costs $300 in Japan (dunno how many Euros/Pounds that is for you foreigners) but, being the Nintendo fan boy I am and considering how psyched I am to get a 3DS, I would easily preorder one for $300.

Any opinions on this, you bunch of racists? 

I don' t understand you. Are you suggesting that ppl should be shot if they disrespect your culture? I really don't get what you're saying. What is the alternative to proper integration? Also, I think you know as well as I do that free schools are not enough.

I was mentioning Germany because I'm german and we are talking about a problem that is common to a lot of countries. 

We are in bad times in all Europe with people with no jobs(Spain 20%), and I think we should be like was supposed to!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

"The EU has developed a single market through a standardised system of laws which apply in all member states, and ensures the free movement of people, goods, services, and capital"

Europe for Euro citizens, people out of Europe bring their problems and then we have to support then with houses and money.
What we need? more control in borders, the ones that are already in here is important to give then education and try to make then live like us, with laws and respect, the outsiders I think is time for more and more restrict control to don't let then come!
If we don�t have job for us... what they come do here? guess...!!! 

That's a very fucked up and "assholish" attitude. Our whole society is built on exploitation of the "lesser" countries. You want them to stay out of our lives? Better stay out of their's. 

people out of Europe bring their problems and then we have to support then with houses and money.

the idea, i think, is that if they were properly integrated into the country, then that would become a non-issue. they would BE european. 

not in Portugal Spirit... anyway this conversation don't go any ware...

people got they owns ideas and we have to respect everyone!

Better go map

bye 

europe for euros only. oh dear. 

On the same new note, aren't you afraid the 3DS might just end up being another Virtual Boy? Save your $300 and get a 3DO instead ;) 

but the 3ds isn't a pair of goggles on a stand... least from what i've seen 

I don' t understand you. Are you suggesting that ppl should be shot if they disrespect your culture? I really don't get what you're saying. What is the alternative to proper integration?

I am not suggesting to put everybody in a stadium a shot them, this is not the idea. I was just referring to riots and how the police should behave... but it is illegal.. anyway..
Only thing you have to know, is that 75%+ of the suburbs population is coming from immigration.... just make your own conclusion...

Also, I think you know as well as I do that free schools are not enough.

Indeed, it is not enough. Parents should also learn the language of the country they immigrate to. And the parents should force their kids to go to school... that is not the case unfortunately, as most of them consider it is a cultural loss (meaning loosing their own culture) to go to school, and spread their kids over us, infidels we are... 

The hell did I miss?

And seriously. Do you not understand that these people (note, PEOPLE) are burning cars, selling drugs and 'fucking up our society' because we have excluded them and discriminated against them to the point where they have no other option for survival than illegal activities and a large amount of understandable rage at the way they've been treated.

Their countries of origin are in part so impoverished that they have had to move halfway round the world because of our ancestors.

The obvious way to solve it is to not isolate these groups of immigrants in ghettos that force them to turn to lives of crime, but to allow them intergration into our society and thereby ultimately solve the problem.

As an example, I'd like to cite the history of black america, from segregation through to the crips and the bloods. If you cannot see the link there then you are clearly mentally deficient.


And these immigration waves are very different, socially and culturally, from what we experimented 50 years ago...

What? You mean their not white? Nice. Real nice.


And I didn't realise you were from Bradford ijed. You gotta know all about racial tension then. Some of my friends were at that EDL 'protest' (you know, in the counter-protest against the racist scum ofc, I have some taste in who I associate with). The EDL are fucking scum, and possibly the greastest disgrace in this country. Bunch of illiterate, moronic fucks who think they have more rights to welfare payments than other humans just because it's 'their country'. Swear down they would fail the immigration test to a man (hell, I had difficulty with the practice exams when a friend of mine was having to sit it, and I'm vaguely educated).


And no Trinca. I don't have to respect your views. Because they are based on a lack of thought/knowledge and will merely lead to a worsening of racial tensions. Fuck you views.