...Why so few DOOM3 e Q4 user made addons?

The last fps that I remember having a decent scene in custom mapping is maybe Q2...

I don't dig often for customs, but I don't think I have more than 10 DOOM3 and maybe 4 QUAKE4... 

its a lot of work isnt it? especially if you want to make a new theme.

most new games require way more time to make maps than your usual q1/q2/unreal map. 

Indeed a lot of time. I started to make a q2 styled q4sp map, but is still <50% ready. But i hope i'll finish it someday.

Btw don't you think that custom mapping era is very close to it's end? 

Indeed a lot of time. I started to make a q2 styled q4sp map, but is still <50% ready. But i hope i'll finish it someday.

Btw don't you think that custom mapping era is very close to it's end? 

I don't think it's at an end but IMO it's very fragmented. You have those who are willing to put in the effort to map for newer engines and you have a bunch of people who like the engine they're on (Quake, Half-Life, etc) and just stay there. If you're having fun there's no reason to move ahead in engine unless you really want to. 

I think for most newer games, yeah. Especially new themes in new engines are hard to do without a team of people working on a mod type scenario.

But you'll get people making some custom maps, if only to try their hand at new engines but most of these will utilise the art assets that shipped with the game rather than have too much new stuff. 

I have been thinking for a while that I'll be moving on after Remake Quake. I just find DOOM3 an all around pretty good shooter game. I might just map for that engine as well once I have a machine that can reliably run it. Less reason to make mods for it, too, because it already has all that stuff like breakables, pushables, rotateables, ingame computer consoles and entering keycodes, inventory, NPCs/scripts, several bosses, high quality sound and graphics, a predictable target engine, better AI etc., yadda yadda yadda. All the stuff that is such a big part of Remake Quake (and that some people view as crazy ideas), for example, is already there. No need to invent CSQC or code breakables in DOOM3.

And obviously, I think that stuff is needed. That's what I'm interested in, really. Additional devices. Not so much additional monsters, game modes or weapon mods. I don't want to play soccer in a shooter, I want to splatter monsters across the wall with a shotgun in the dark. I do like some scripts or cutscenes though, I don't think they take away from the monster killing somehow. Time to roll a fag, indeed.

Why mod it? It is the result of years of modding. It's all there. I would much prefer a project where I could simply map, with the whole modding part already done and in place. This is what I hoped Quoth would be. As it turns out, Quoth is not a next-generation FPS toolkit for Quake. I don't blame it, it just means you have to code your stuff yourself, and partly your stuff is even redundant. :)

I like the D3 look, too. I might be a very ... simplistic or linear thinking mapper, but the variety of themes never was an issue for me. I like games with a relatively uniform look that tell a story in one or two places from A to Z. I think fewer, but more varied themes are good. Idbase for example is super limited. I find myself wanting more different tech textures and gadgets. Idbase has wall panels out the wazoo, but very little actual things. It's like that with all the Quake themes. Anyway, I don't care about the looks as much as the things that happen in the game.

As for it being harder to map for than Doom or Quake, well that's the price you pay then. The upside is that very little modding would be required. In my book, that's a good deal. 

Will you add a grappling hook, call it RedoneDoom and make a software-rendered port? 

Gonna suck when people won't be able to map for newer games... Who want's to have fun downloading 4gb, megatextured Rage maps? 

Tbh 4gb is only like 30 minutes. Back in the dial up days it'd take me as long to d/l a few hundred kb map.

It's far more a question of the time envolved in creating a more detailed map (altho there's the argument that map object pack will become the new texture packs) 

The mapping standards in terms of design and the level of detailing grows every year. If we compare it to the time of quake or doom, it was much easier to a newbie mapper to make a good map than today. The time of large mapping scenes is in the past. So what will be in five or ten years?

Maybe this subject deserves its own thread for discussion? 

that we just need better tools? Or is what we have now as good as it can get? (Aside from tools that automatically generate exactly what you envision in your mind, of course). 

Tools are getting better and better, obviously there's always room for improvement. 

UnrealEd and the Crysis editor are pretty damned slick, at least as far as placing assets and getting the level working. Creation tools, like Max and Maya, I dunno if there are better alternatives. 

 

when I'm using Radiant, I'm thinking of Hammer. Sometimes when I'm using Hammer, I'm thinking of Radiant. I just can't choose between the two! 

No, quite the opposite. 

If tools are getting better with each generation of game, but content still takes longer and longer to create, then we are in an obvious pickle.

This trend seems to benefit companies with larger budgets, because they can afford to satiate increasingly-hungry customers; I mean, they get to influence the expectations of players to want 'more and more' instead of 'better and better' (although sometimes 'more' is 'better'). 

Quake 4 is worth playing... I was a little bit septic at the very beginning, but now it is definitely awesome.
There's indeed a feeling of "deja-vu" as the game looks like a remix of Quake 2 mixed with Doom 3, but OMG ! this game is good..
Also, monster AI is surprising sometimes, and this makes the game interesting, particularly in tactical combat... Well, I'm very heuury to fight the final boss, hoping there's a big one at the end....

Ca va saigner !! 

inertia

I think it's just the nature of the content these days. You no longer simply create a texture, for example. You create a texture and a specular map and a normal map and possibly a transmission mask, etc. It's just a longer process because the expected quality bar is much higher.

The tools are catching up but it always takes awhile. When Quake was the hot new thing, I remember that computers were barely able to handle the VIS process and level editors struggled to load any map of even id1 size.

Whatever is the current tech will always be more difficult to create content for. Now, 10+ years later, we create Quake content and barely even think about it. It seems so simple. :) 

id software seems to see how much better tools are needed, judging from the indepth look at their rage tools one or two years ago. 

yeah, but when you compare crysis to rage, rage doesn't look all that impressive when it comes to tools.

building stuff in crysis (and i guess far cry 2?) is incredibly easy to do... as long as the model assets are there.

i felt id was a lil slow when it came to integrating editing and playing. for example, the original unreal had it's own editor that was fully integrated. far cry had integrated editing/game engine allowing real time preview (and switching into the game) instantaneously half a year before we got doom 3.
id makes great engines, but if anything, they seem to be really slow with working on ways to create content for them. 

So what do you want to see in new generation tools? As for me doom3 radiant had a lot of stuff in it, including in editor realtime rendering. But not in editor playtesting. What more do you want to see in modern tools? I have am old pc and don't know much about new tendentions in tools content 

So what do you want to see in new generation tools? As for me doom3 radiant had a lot of stuff in it, including in editor realtime rendering. But not in editor playtesting. What more do you want to see in modern tools? I have an old pc and don't know much about the latest tendentions in tools content 

Can't say for doom3 really, but for Source, getting external content (new models/textures/etc) into the editor is kind of hassle, whereas with Unreal, it's really quick and easy (and I think it's the same with Crysis).
Also did doom3 radiant have a tool to create shaders?