"So Valve didn't deliver the free stuff they promised. Boo FUCKING hoo. Cry me a river onto your pro-gaming keyboards and mounds of empty pizza boxes. L4D was a top value game with plentiful hours of gameplay for ones' ���. And if L4D2 is more of the same, it will be too. So what's the fucking problem?? Oh yeah, I remember, the problem is that this is the internet, and other people are allowed to post views on it *rolls eyes*. "

If Valve wasn't going to deliver extra content and support L4D as they do for TF2 (extensively), they should have said that. Why is suddenly OK for companies to promise support and extra content and then just decide, meh, not to do it?

Hell, Valve's stellar support of their products is what pushed many people I know to buy L4D.

Do you think that's a good precedent to set? I'm normally all about telling people to STFU and stop whining but, you know, they have a legit point.

Whether L4D is worth the money people paid for it is beside the point. The point is that support and content were promised and then taken away in favor of releasing a second full retail SKU.

"Hell, cause we bought a copy of Quake 1 back in '96, shouldnt we have recieved Quake 2, Quake 3, Quake 4, all of the mission packs etc for free, because we already paid for Quake? "

That's not even remotely close to what is being argued by the L4D people. 

I mean, show me anything here that couldn't be added into the current L4D:

http://kotaku.com/5284932/five-bloody-minutes-of-left-4-dead-2-gameplay

I'm not saying that Valve can't do whatever they want. They obviously can. I'm simply saying that this seems so our of character for them that there HAS to be some back story to it that we aren't aware of yet.

Releasing a retail sequel a year after the original that basically looks like a 1.5 version of the original. What? 

I'll probably buy it anyway - the idea of hitting Shambler in the back with a chainsaw sounds just too compelling. 

There is a limit for DLC on the Xbox. L4D is cross platform, PC and XBOX. Since they cannot release a large expansion as DLC because it breaks these limits they have to release it as a separate game.

They justify this by making L4D2 larger in terms of levels and changing the rendering system to their Phong / HDR system.

Why they decided to make the expansion too big for DLC in the first place is a bit of a head scratcher. Possibly the Dev team just aren't used to the limitations.

I get the feeling this is a mix of technical problems and dev politics ie. TCRs - which are the rules that microsoft enforces on publishers who want to make games for their consoles. 

DLC = Downloadable Content.

The sooner the various projects announced at E3 to eliminate hard copies of software are in the sooner we're all better off as far as I'm concerned.

Alot of publishers will be crippled by it, but talking from a dev / consumer side: boo-hoo. 

Okay, I just treated it as a game in it's own right.

Someone on this forum said "Smables u gotta get L4D dude it rocks there are zombies and shit and Bal wants to shoot you in the ass with a shotgun" and I was like "Oooh coop zombie shooting with #func losers cool". And that was that.

Valve might be backing down on promises, well that sucks so much for those who expected an unduly large amount of bang for their buck. I expected a normal amount (and got a bit more in terms of gameplay hours).

That Kotaku site is the glitchiest slowest-loading piece of ass I've had the misfortune to encounter, so I can't see what it offers. 

"Valve might be backing down on promises, well that sucks so much for those who expected an unduly large amount of bang for their buck. I expected a normal amount (and got a bit more in terms of gameplay hours)."

And again that's the key. If Valve hadn't promised free content for the game, nobody would have a right to bitch. But they did.

I'm glad that you feel you got your moneys worth but there are a lot of people who bought on the premise of getting TF2 level support. They aren't going to get it now and are instead being told, "Hey, buy a new retail SKU instead".

That stings a little. That's all.

Now, if Valve goes all out and support L4D2 with the same ferocity as they support TF2 this whole thing will be forgotten in a years time of course... 

What's an SKU? I mean, I get it's a stand alone release, just, what's it stand for?

And frankly I think this entire thing will be forgotten in a years time anyway, internets people like whining... 

"And frankly I think this entire thing will be forgotten in a years time anyway, internets people like whining..."

Pretty much everything gets forgotten over time but it's wrong to chalk this up as "people like whining". Valve told people one thing and then did another. A bait and switch, if you will. That's not something that should be ignored as it sets a bad precedent. 

I'll be buying it the second it's out.
I might accidentally drop a chainsaw on Shambler while playing, that kind of stuff happens, you know, like unintentional point blank shotgun blasts to the back of the head.

Valve DID release extra content for the first game already, plenty of gameplay enhancements to make it more balanced, a new gameplay mode, and the 2 extra campaigns in verus (which many will argue should have been out of the box, but whatever).
Yeah everyone was expecting more, but I doubt anyone was expecting as much as they have planned in L4D2, so I'm fine with paying for it. 

Are people complaining that Valve isn't going to support L4D anymore? Where the FUCK do people get this idea? Valve have said REPEATEDLY that they are STILL WORKING ON CONTENT FOR L4D. They have never said "We're not going to be working on L4D anymore, so suck it suckers!"

The main point I get from L4D2 boycotters is that they have to pay for a game. Everything else I've seen is easily argued away as just bitching. I am completely stoked for L4D2, will be preordering it, and will be playing the fuck out of that game.

Where some of these points come from can only be described as the soft, moist womb where shit forms, because it is complete and utter bile. 

You believe that once L4D2 comes out, Valve will be producing free content for L4D? Really? 

You believe they won't? Really? 

What would be their incentive? Buy L4D2, that's the game we're supporting now. How much stuff gets produced for Half-Life 1? 

How much stuff gets produced for HL1? You can do better than that. =/ 

I'm not sure what you're after here but isn't it common sense? They are going to want people to move to L4D2 so time spent creating content for the old game is completely wasted and, as an added negative, it maintains fragmentation of their user base.

Have they SAID they're going to release content for L4D once L4D2 comes out? 

This is the first of such articles I've seen, feel free to do more research if you want

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/before-its-time-valve-explains-left-4-dead-sequel-to-ars.ars 

But yeah, I doubt they'll spend money on producing content for an old game, which is what L4D1 becomes as soon as 2 comes out.

What I would like to see is that L4D2 content is backwards compatible with L4D1 - so new maps can be loaded etc. in the old rendering system, and the old characters, maps etc. being possible to load in L4D2.

A complicated feature, but seeing as we're including support for external mods and content in RQ I can't see it being that difficult. Lots of wrappers, basically.

That'd stop the whining by anyone with two brain cells to rub together, allowing the gaming blog forum mes to return to its uneasy slumbers of viral marketing, bullshit commentary and bitchy flamewars. 

So they're doing it then?

Great. 

Actually, that article was more an explaination for why they're making it as a sequel (well argued too tbh), but doesn't mention owt about continuing to make DLC for L4D1. Closest it comes is mentioning that they contacted community mappers saying that 'their work wouldn't be affected', which basically means, it'll be out far enough in the future that your current maps will be done (and may hint at backwards compatibility for loading L4D content(probably simple enough))...

Still, good article. 

"This is the first of such articles I've seen, feel free to do more research if you want

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news..."

Sorry to be argumentative and I guess I might be getting trolled at this point but ... can you quote the part where he says that Valve is going to continue producing free content for L4D? I read the article (it's 1 page, right?) and I didn't see that. 

The SDK will be coming out of beta in the next week or so, and Faliszek points to that to prove that Left 4 Dead will still be updated. Also, all the maps created with the SDK will work on the sequel. As for playing old maps with old characters but new creatures and melee? "We have some additional work to do there, we're talking about how to do that. That's what we want to do."  

So ... the community can create content for L4D that will probably work in L4D2. How does that translate to Valve releasing free content? 

For one, it proves that Valve is still supporting the community. If they weren't going to support it, why even bother with an SDK at this point? Basically the SDK itself IS free content, whether you like it or not - many games don't even release tools, such as Bio Shock. You can only draw "community support" from this act.

Secondly, the quote mentions updating the old maps with new gameplay - such as new Special Infected and new melee weapons, ie FREE CONTENT. I saw nothing mentioning that you had to pay for that (and vice versa, I saw nothing saying that you didn't have to pay for it, but come on, do you think you will have to pay for it?) 

1. Updating the SDK now, while L4D2 isn't even out yet, isn't surprising. It's the expected action, especially if they are hoping to support loading old content into L4D2.

2. I think what he was saying there was you could (potentially) load old maps into L4D2 and play them with the new creatures and melee. Not the other way around.