Omicron bots do what you want, Willem. They're pretty good bots, too. By the same guy who did Gladiator Bot for Q2 and the Q3 bots, too, I believe. 

are better than reapers for sure.

but shh, dont try to sell it by saying the same guy who did the q3 bots, that's not a plus :) 

Anyone seriously recommended the reaper bot for anything other than a laugh should be shot. They're utterly crap, they cheat like motherfuckers and they absolutely fail at the #1 goal of any DM bot (to simulate a human opponent).

Omicron bot is a reasonable alternative for having some fun or testing a new map. They're not terribly smart, no, but they have a bit more personality, they don't cheat tooo much, they can learn any map automatically and most importantly they're kinda fun to muck around with. (Note that while they can "learn" any new map, it takes about 5 minutes for them to build up enough auto-genereated waypoint data etc to actually play it semi-compentently).

Frogbot is good, but they do require waypoints (not a terribly easy process to make them, either) and the data needs to go into the progs.dat, this makes them extremely limited for testing a new map or even tooling around in your latest batch of downloaded maps. They're a good opponent, but more oriented towards hardcore players that like a challenge (so while they're "good", they're not necessarily as much "fun" as say Omicron bots).

I have not tried any Frikbot variant.

Electro's shockbot will destroy all when it is released. 

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/left-4-dead-game,news-4054.html

Valve is infamous for the Half-Life franchise, releasing the initial installment on the PC back in 1998. The game utilized a highly modified version of id Software's original Quake engine 

Hush. We know all that. There is no point.

On the subject of JustSayNotowhatfuckingever or whatever they're called, I will make a specific point of buying L4D2, not just because I'm sure it will be a fine game, but also to laugh in the face of 24,000 irrelevant whiners.

So Valve didn't deliver the free stuff they promised. Boo FUCKING hoo. Cry me a river onto your pro-gaming keyboards and mounds of empty pizza boxes. L4D was a top value game with plentiful hours of gameplay for ones' ���. And if L4D2 is more of the same, it will be too. So what's the fucking problem?? Oh yeah, I remember, the problem is that this is the internet, and other people are allowed to post views on it *rolls eyes*.


P.S. All bots chew sac, invariably skill increase = perfect aim / immediate reactions, with no increase in actually skill nor tactics. 

Hell, cause we bought a copy of Quake 1 back in '96, shouldnt we have recieved Quake 2, Quake 3, Quake 4, all of the mission packs etc for free, because we already paid for Quake?
I mean surely the company made enough money from the sales of Quake to fund all of their projects up till now?

(Xtreme sarcasm) 

'Valve betraying their customers' seems to be the angle of these dorks.

I spotted the way they changed their business model because of Xbox DLC limits, but can't blame them for wanting to make money on the products they sell. 

downloadable content? 

Welcome to 2008. I'm sure you'll fit in well. 

"So Valve didn't deliver the free stuff they promised. Boo FUCKING hoo. Cry me a river onto your pro-gaming keyboards and mounds of empty pizza boxes. L4D was a top value game with plentiful hours of gameplay for ones' ���. And if L4D2 is more of the same, it will be too. So what's the fucking problem?? Oh yeah, I remember, the problem is that this is the internet, and other people are allowed to post views on it *rolls eyes*. "

If Valve wasn't going to deliver extra content and support L4D as they do for TF2 (extensively), they should have said that. Why is suddenly OK for companies to promise support and extra content and then just decide, meh, not to do it?

Hell, Valve's stellar support of their products is what pushed many people I know to buy L4D.

Do you think that's a good precedent to set? I'm normally all about telling people to STFU and stop whining but, you know, they have a legit point.

Whether L4D is worth the money people paid for it is beside the point. The point is that support and content were promised and then taken away in favor of releasing a second full retail SKU.

"Hell, cause we bought a copy of Quake 1 back in '96, shouldnt we have recieved Quake 2, Quake 3, Quake 4, all of the mission packs etc for free, because we already paid for Quake? "

That's not even remotely close to what is being argued by the L4D people. 

I mean, show me anything here that couldn't be added into the current L4D:

http://kotaku.com/5284932/five-bloody-minutes-of-left-4-dead-2-gameplay

I'm not saying that Valve can't do whatever they want. They obviously can. I'm simply saying that this seems so our of character for them that there HAS to be some back story to it that we aren't aware of yet.

Releasing a retail sequel a year after the original that basically looks like a 1.5 version of the original. What? 

I'll probably buy it anyway - the idea of hitting Shambler in the back with a chainsaw sounds just too compelling. 

There is a limit for DLC on the Xbox. L4D is cross platform, PC and XBOX. Since they cannot release a large expansion as DLC because it breaks these limits they have to release it as a separate game.

They justify this by making L4D2 larger in terms of levels and changing the rendering system to their Phong / HDR system.

Why they decided to make the expansion too big for DLC in the first place is a bit of a head scratcher. Possibly the Dev team just aren't used to the limitations.

I get the feeling this is a mix of technical problems and dev politics ie. TCRs - which are the rules that microsoft enforces on publishers who want to make games for their consoles. 

DLC = Downloadable Content.

The sooner the various projects announced at E3 to eliminate hard copies of software are in the sooner we're all better off as far as I'm concerned.

Alot of publishers will be crippled by it, but talking from a dev / consumer side: boo-hoo. 

Okay, I just treated it as a game in it's own right.

Someone on this forum said "Smables u gotta get L4D dude it rocks there are zombies and shit and Bal wants to shoot you in the ass with a shotgun" and I was like "Oooh coop zombie shooting with #func losers cool". And that was that.

Valve might be backing down on promises, well that sucks so much for those who expected an unduly large amount of bang for their buck. I expected a normal amount (and got a bit more in terms of gameplay hours).

That Kotaku site is the glitchiest slowest-loading piece of ass I've had the misfortune to encounter, so I can't see what it offers. 

"Valve might be backing down on promises, well that sucks so much for those who expected an unduly large amount of bang for their buck. I expected a normal amount (and got a bit more in terms of gameplay hours)."

And again that's the key. If Valve hadn't promised free content for the game, nobody would have a right to bitch. But they did.

I'm glad that you feel you got your moneys worth but there are a lot of people who bought on the premise of getting TF2 level support. They aren't going to get it now and are instead being told, "Hey, buy a new retail SKU instead".

That stings a little. That's all.

Now, if Valve goes all out and support L4D2 with the same ferocity as they support TF2 this whole thing will be forgotten in a years time of course... 

What's an SKU? I mean, I get it's a stand alone release, just, what's it stand for?

And frankly I think this entire thing will be forgotten in a years time anyway, internets people like whining... 

"And frankly I think this entire thing will be forgotten in a years time anyway, internets people like whining..."

Pretty much everything gets forgotten over time but it's wrong to chalk this up as "people like whining". Valve told people one thing and then did another. A bait and switch, if you will. That's not something that should be ignored as it sets a bad precedent. 

I'll be buying it the second it's out.
I might accidentally drop a chainsaw on Shambler while playing, that kind of stuff happens, you know, like unintentional point blank shotgun blasts to the back of the head.

Valve DID release extra content for the first game already, plenty of gameplay enhancements to make it more balanced, a new gameplay mode, and the 2 extra campaigns in verus (which many will argue should have been out of the box, but whatever).
Yeah everyone was expecting more, but I doubt anyone was expecting as much as they have planned in L4D2, so I'm fine with paying for it. 

Are people complaining that Valve isn't going to support L4D anymore? Where the FUCK do people get this idea? Valve have said REPEATEDLY that they are STILL WORKING ON CONTENT FOR L4D. They have never said "We're not going to be working on L4D anymore, so suck it suckers!"

The main point I get from L4D2 boycotters is that they have to pay for a game. Everything else I've seen is easily argued away as just bitching. I am completely stoked for L4D2, will be preordering it, and will be playing the fuck out of that game.

Where some of these points come from can only be described as the soft, moist womb where shit forms, because it is complete and utter bile. 

You believe that once L4D2 comes out, Valve will be producing free content for L4D? Really? 

You believe they won't? Really? 

What would be their incentive? Buy L4D2, that's the game we're supporting now. How much stuff gets produced for Half-Life 1? 

How much stuff gets produced for HL1? You can do better than that. =/