This. Cheers, Spirit. 

Agree with Spirit as well. Those guys are idiots, which is proven by the fact alone that they fell in with neonazis. You cannot argue against the fact that Bittorrent is mostly used for theft and not for legitimate purposes. It's not like it's just a tiny fraction of the content that's illegitimate - it's the overwhelming majority.

And you cannot argue this away by saying that it's the industry's own fault either because they don't provide easy-to-use, accessible-for-everybody and affordable ways for people to use their content or that you get "locked in" (e.g. iTunes). That just doesn't justify theft. At least not in the reality I live in.

Note: I do use Bittorrent for pirating the occasional TV show that would not be accessible to me in a timely fashion otherwise, so I'm a hipocrite. But at least I'm aware of that. 

Well, i wouldn't necessarily disagree if they're getting prosecuted for advertising copyright infringement. But they seemed to be very sure all that stuff is legal in swe, which makes it a non-issue, then (if it indeed is).

And still, i don't think that would justify taking down the site or the trackers. Removing the illegal torrents, maybe.

they fell in with neonazis the last time i saw this it wasn't more than rumor. src? And i think you'd be surprised how many nazi guys were in charge in DE... 

now that i think of it "get the latest moviez here" doesn't imply copyright infringement at all. 

Checking the site just now, there's nothing that advertises copyright infringement on it. Nada. 

...did you bother even posting that??

They knew exactly what they were doing, the users knew exactly what they were doing, and so did everyone else. 

then again that is law, and thats coming from one so trust me :) 

aimed at the no copyright infringement by their actions posts. 

The site was called "The Pirate Bay" FFS!
And almost every file on it had the word "crack" or "rip" in the title, or "keygen". 

"But they seemed to be very sure all that stuff is legal in swe"

Yeah, right. I think you are german, so you understand the saying "Unwissenheit sch�tzt vor Strafe nicht", I guess. For everyone else, I think the correct translation is "Ignorance is no excuse in law".

About the neonazi issue, I have no definite proof, but a quick google search turns up this article at the register

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/26/pirate_bay_neo_nazi/

Anyways, even if it's not true, that doesn't change the fact that they knew what they were doing and that it was illegal and that they would be prosecuted one day. 

so, i take it you can point me to and quote the relevant sections in swedish law. Oh, you can't? Then please stfu when somebody's discussing the legal issues regarding pirate bay. Cause, y'know, "Unwissenheit schuetzt vor Dummheit nicht". 

is a pirate hook illegal (commonly worn on thanksgiving), just because it's called like that? is penisland.com porn? 

Cause it aint me. Keep digging ole buddy, keep digging. A website called pirate bay, where you go to download "perfectly legitimate files" 99% of which are sub-standard copies of media which is SUPPOSED to be protected under copyright law. And you KNOW that its saving you X amount of money because you KNOW your supposed to pay for it.

Still I see your point - "Mega" - "Man" - you'd expect it to me some sort of extra-proportioned guy of some type. Oh, how surprised you would be. 

If there was a kiddy porn site called "www.funwithchildered.com" you wouldnt argue that that was OK, so why this? 

Ok, if piracy didn�t happened all those companies would win more... DVD�s are way to much expensive� why should they get so many money with a fucking peace of plastic with some songs or movie on it?

I think all these industries should make things more cheep, they will get more money for sure if they put the DVD cheaper�

Metalica are a fucking example, thanks god I don�t like those fagets assholes and if I did, I surely never buy a DVD from then after what they have done!

FUCK THOSE HUGE COMPANYS ,THEY WANT TO MUCH OF OUR FEW MONEY. 

to get you guys away from the PIRACY IS EVIL track:

rather than arguing about their intentions, i argue about whether there's much that objectively distinguishes them from every other public tracker + directory. And do i have to argue that banning those would be a bad move for freedom of speech? 

I fail to see why you condemn one form of stealing an artists just reward for their work (TBP) while supporting what is effectively another way of stealing artists pay (record labels).

Oh, and Carl Ludstrom is nazi; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lundstr%C3%B6m#Political_affiliations 

There are better things to play Devil's Advocate about other than TPB intents, which are bloody obvious.

One of those things, is, as you say, other public trackers + directories.

The thing is: The law is the law. It might not be morally right but we either obey it and live in peace, disobey it and pay the consequences, OR fight to have it changed.

Note that I don't present "disobey it and whine" as a valid option.

(A fair comparison is speeding. The law states we are not allowed to speed. I speed, you speed, everyone speeds (mostly to minor and relatively safe degrees but still illegally). If I fairly get caught speeding, I accept that. I have knowingly broken the law and whether I agree or disagree with that law I have to accept the consequences.).

For people like Trinca who have such a chip on their shoulder about it, might I suggest a good option would be to fight to change the law - or fight to change the way the system works to make media (films, music, games) more accessible i.e. cheaper to people.

Are you going to keep whining about the situation Trinca, or actually do something to STOP THOSE HUGE COMPANIES TAKING TOO MUCH OF OUR FEW MONIES? 

Might I speculate that you too have a chip on your shoulder, perhaps due to personal (or friend's) experiences with record labels??

From what little I understand, record labels actually do work for the artists (organising manufacturing, transport, distribution, promotion, artwork, media negotiations, etc etc), for which they take their cut?? 

I think we need bigger chips on shoulders, these little one just aint cutting it anymore. 

I dont have much time to download...

So no time at all for doing anything...

Is like football i watch if is free but i refuse to pay anything to then!

I just play Quake and i have the original!

Yes i downloaded ilegaly other games, but i deleted then real fast... most of then where demos...

Artists got the concerts... i more then enought money to make then rich... 

Or those curly spiral things, they were fucking great, where did I get them from. Oh yeah that pizza place in Aviemore, yum....Pizza was a bit crap tho. 

Okay, I'll just shut the fuck up then. There's obviously no point in discussing this with someone who is intellectually far superior than me, who is just stupid and can't point you to the "relevant sections of swedish law". Great argument, by the way.

One more thing, since I'm even too stupid to STFU when told: The problem to me is that there obviously is such a huge demand for pirated IP. I wonder if there would be a way to get people to accept that you have to, you know, pay other people for their hard work if you want it. Maybe the solution would be that IP owners offer better distribution systems, or make it cheaper or whatever. But no matter how unsatisfied you are with the big companies, it doesn't give you the right to steal from them. It's really simple.

The real problem is that all the piracy arguments dilute the real issue to no end and eventually play into the hands of those who want more control over the internet. Guys like the TPB founders give them the arguments they need to change the law in order to protect their property. But hey - let's keep mixing up the arguments and shoot us in our own ass by defending piracy, anyway. Because we, like, understand the internet, and stuff. 

free speech != right to steal

because, with the right to free speech comes a certain responsibility. 

.. is leaded by Internet Anarchists !! Kill them all :P