i fail to see how either dying more often or increased enemy HP add to the fun factor at all?

of course it doesn�t, but it�s an easy way out, just changing some numbers. That way there�s no need to re-design something like writing different AI code for different skill settings.

It also makes the levels (and the whole game) seem to last longer, because players need longer to get through; that�s often needed because games get shorter and shorter, and most eye-candy engines of today can�t render levels with more than 3 rooms and 10 enemies.

The absense of these cheap tricks is what makes games like Quake stand the test of time. 

But it's still a lump of metal, or polygons.

At least it could be used to batter the enemies to death a bit better.

I agree with Romero in that the weapon balance of Q1 is crap, compared, say, to Doom.

There's almost no reason to use the SNG when you have a DBS - maybe when the map design breaks down and you're sniping an Ogre from range. Same for NG / SNG, but with even less utility.

The Doom Shotgun had a meatier punch and the DBS was a devastating weapon, offset by its very slow firing rate.

I'm not saying the Quake weapons should be Doomified, but they could be much better balanced to provoke tactical decisions. Which = fun. 

sielwolf: aint that the truth ;/

ijed: i'm working on rebalancing the weapons a tad for my episode.. the shotgun now has a tighter aim & does a little more damage. for the SNG i was considering making it scatter the nails a little, so the player has to choose between power & accuracy. the axe also does 2x the damage now & gibs zombies (thank you zer!)

i also thought about replacing the lightning gun with a low-end cell weapon, something like the gun the enforcer uses maybe 

That sounds good - pretty much what I have in mind for my own episode.

I haven't changed the weapons much as yet, apart from the axe (now Ogre chainsaw, gibs zombies). I've also tried to make a version of the Enforcer Blaster, but not to replace the LG, just to sit inbetween the SNG and GL as an extra weapon. 

Do you want to go onto the playtesters list?

I'll have a one map beta in the next couple of weeks. 

and the rest of the game stays pretty much unchanged you might want to change the visuals or sound of them to make the player aware that it's not business as usual 

bear makes an extremely important point. It was very hard to get some people to get this in a certain other game as there were multiple versions of the same weapon with the same graphic and name (except the other was capitalized) - and they had different behavior. 

it'd be cool if you could like cut the monster's hamstrings with the axe and have them move slower or something. or maybe it could just make them bleed for 25 damage every 2 seconds. give a chance to make them go into pain and also a decent amount of damage.

or like, in quoth, if the warhammer dazed monsters and made them move slower or increased the damage they recieved.

basically, anything to give an excuse to use melee weapons in the game.

doom chainsaw was kind of like that. it kept monsters in pain frames almost constantly, but was a little unpredictable because of the way it pulled you around and wasn't really an option with more than 2 monsters. 

Quick ideas to make the axe feel more useful - Monsters are more likely to go into pain frames when hit by the axe. Monsters receive triple damage from an axe hit if they're not in their running mode when initially struck.

The axe could make quicker successive strikes, up to 3 in a row, on a single target, or in a fan of 110 degrees, target up to 3 monsters to strike a single time, pausing briefly every few.

Not particularly Quakey, but it could make it more useful.

Also, holding attack when no monster is in melee range could have the player draw the axe up into an overhead strike for more damage, a la Morrowind (I loved doing that with the Last Rites). 

couple that hold fire for drawing a really good long two-handed log-splitter's overhead strike and a damage enhancer for non-alert monsters from the rear... (Think of the mapping potentials, for example coupled with invisibility!)

It gets complicated quickly though.

Btw chopping wood is one of the most therapeutic things ever. 

Good discussion. I wonder what will come of it.

Can't think of much more to say. 

And I like the buttons idea. It could be scary if you think about some machine, just standing there for 50 or 100 years, and it _just_ works when you start it. Like one said that there's a knight, standing behind a door. He's not from our world, he stands there for thousand years, covered with the dust, not even blinked once through all this time. But when you open this door, he's immediately ready to kill you.

This could work if the buttons gave the sound of some machinery turning etc, and/or if you could see part of it. Too many buttons have a line of "electrical" cable leading away from them, or just sit on some post like in Zer, and go "phhhht" when pressing. Well, I don't want to go there again.

I'd rather have doors "magically" opening (no buttons at all). This would go well with the "it's all inexplicable arcane forces at work" theory. If you're not supposed to know how stuff works, buttons are the worst thing you can do. :-P because it gives a super-simple explanation. ("it must be some machinery.")

Now if you indirectly admit the existence of machinery (buttons), think what a missed opportunity it is to not use that machinery to create atmosphere, by actually building it. 

There's the classic id texture of machinery that tended to be nearby any button operated door. Replacing it with some rotatings / chains / pistons embedded in the walls and floor.

Good idea. 

even keys are better than buttons that just go "phhhht".

For example in e1m2 there are 3 doors (4 if you count the exit, 5 if you count the fiend cell.)

One is a key door. Another two open magically. The exit opens magically (why is there even a door there...) and the fiend cell, which is not a player-route related door, does have a button which activates some floating blocks. At least. That's a bit thin, but it's enough. OK, it also moves the bars but they're right next to it.

The only other button extends the bridge, which is something I'm willing to assume a button could do. Especially since it's around the corner. A shootable trigger reveals the YA, which is rubbish but acceptable on the basis of being a game. (Human) Armor on some pedestal in the Quake world isn't very likely either.

Some secret doors (really moving walls) open by being shot (could be a breakable) and by approaching/magic. This is pretty much acceptable on the same basis as the YA thing: game gimmick.

Buttons that operate lifts are acceptable based on immediately interacting with something next to it, that obviously uses compressed air or whatever (sound.) The medieval lifts at least have the chain (?) sound, as do some doors. The press-style buttons don't fit them too well, levers would be better. So in this case, the lift _is_ the machinery and that's OK then. Buttons right next to their related door are rubbish on the other hand, at least in medieval maps, because they can open magically.

What I find hard to accept is that two buttons on opposite ends of the map just go "phhhht" and say "1 more to go..." and then some important door opens. This is a case where I'd personally like to see the thing that connects it all.

It works better in base maps, since we can assume there is electricity at work. But that's not so satisfying.

If you go "magic", you shouldn't use too many buttons at all IMO.

e1m3 has 3 doors that I can think of, 1 is a key door and 2 open magically. So that's in line with the "magic does it" approach. The button that opens the zombie closets below is a small miracle, though. Opening 4 doors would require quite some levers etc, and it being controlled from such a tiny button, with nothing else visible, is too much for me personally to believe.

well. I just find lonely buttons that do something on the other side of the room/map a bit hard to swallow. Except in base maps, where it's the more buttons, the merrier. 

And I like the buttons idea. It could be scary if you think about some machine, just standing there for 50 or 100 years, and it _just_ works when you start it. Like one said that there's a knight, standing behind a door. He's not from our world, he stands there for thousand years, covered with the dust, not even blinked once through all this time. But when you open this door, he's immediately ready to kill you.

I think this paragraph for me sums up Quake very well! Well done to the original author! 

id just removed the use button from quake to make it faster and more arcadey compared to doom (and wolfenstein) - it was pretty redundant anyway. :) 

That static discharge from the air to the ground
was not caused by the Gods being angry at you. 

Wii remote mod. With the axe.

I know people have been modding/hacking to get wii remotes to work on a pc.... ?

I mean the potential is endless!!
I recon a lot of people wlll have access to a wii remote too :) 

zomg, waayyy too hard. died twice before quitting, both before the five minute mark.
doesn't really feel like it's nonlinear because it's basically a one atrium map (as far as i got) and the options aren't really made obvious. the feeling was more.. well, i look around this corner, and there's some ogres, and then i'm practically forced to pursue that path because ammo is so sparse. no real choice at all :(

it also has fucked up d3 style teleporting monster right behind / in front of you places, and invisible teleporting places, and 'better don't fall into the lava while you balance over that beam while being followed by a death knight, and you only have 20 life left', oh, and don't forget the 'this jump looks like it's possible, but you won't make it, and there's slime below it in the dark and there will spawn several wizards while you frantically try to get out of that slime'. 

A lot of the bizarre nail traps the author claims were to alter bot navigation and keep them from always jumping into the slime, which I agree is rather dumb, and there are some cheap ambushes. What I like about it is the fact that, yes, it is a one atrium map, with a warren of unique side passages and spaces above you that you're continually unlocking and discovering ways into.

It's a concept I find myself wanting to explore - take what I thought was good about it and polish it, remove the gunk. What I'd aim for would be ways for the player to feel more and more sure of his navigation, having unlocked enough passages to essentially turn the map into a deathmatch level, except in a way that he still feels he needs to be ever on his guard. New caches of monster population can be left in unpredictable and not necessarily 'sensible' places, so that the player can't count on the assumption that an area is empty once it's empty, or on the equally predictable fill-the-last-room-once-the-player-has-found-they-key backtrack repopulation. 

Forgot to mention, he made it as a deathmatch map, hence the bot thing. I think as single player it actually works pretty well, and the deathmatch basis lends it a very unique sensibility a truly linear-minded single player mapper would never have discovered. 

that IS interesting.

The major issues that pop into my head are indeed:

1) choices need to be obvious (and deadends need to be kinda obvious, too e.g. his ssg deadend i didn't walk into at first because i decided to take another path, so i ended up not having the ssg the first try). This probably means emphasizing the doors to the alternatives with architecture and lighting, and it could in turn lead to interesting 'secret' paths that aren't emphasized, but not hidden in any other way.

2) the quake ammunition problem: in a lot of maps i find myself having just enough ammo + a dozen shots or so to finish all the enemies up to the next ammo pack (or i'm just using sg too much). This decourages peeking into alternative paths.

3) The gameplay/monster encounters should be 'predictable' from at least one corner ahead or so, so you can go back if you don't like the particular situation. If you had alternative routes in a d3 level, it wouldn't give you any advantage - you can't know what enemies will tele in before they're.. well, teleing in. E.g. in descent, there's often situations where you take a peek into a largish room, and find yourself up against a particularly tough robot (frmo that position!), so you look at the automap, see that the room's probably accessible from the other side and decide to go that way. Maybe it's just that: the fighting space needs to be predictable 

Nice idea with the Wii remote. There are some open projects to use the remote on standard PC. Like this one: http://wiiuse.net/ (and many more I think ;)

Also, there's a _nice_ idea by Johnny Chung Lee - "Head Tracking for Desktop VR Displays using the Wii Remote" - http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/johnny/projects/wii/ 

a friend who tried the headtracking; he was 'very underwhelmed'. it looks perfect in the video because the camera is tracked perfectly and it's just a 2d image, but your eyes would need two seperate images. 

Did raptor have anything more than just a raptor against humans?

Why not make some other suitable dinosaurs, possibly Strog-style / Edie style dinosaurs with cool weapons attatched...

Er, I've never made an mdl in my life, or any other kind of model using a wireframe, let alone gone through the painfull process of cell-by-cell anuimation, but I could try.

I.D.E.A.