Anyways. I played through, and died, and didn't bother to give it a second try; because second-run demos is not what you're interested in, and I already hated every experience I had so far with this anyways.

I did not see the point in checking your demo because you were already in a bad frame of mind before you even played the map. Any first playthrough feedback you could offer would be coloured by your frustration at expecting the map package to be setup to your liking. There was plenty of instructions in the readme file to how to config the map to your liking and for some reason you decided to ignore it.

By the way, why are you releasing a pack of demos? Is that the trend now a days that mappers do after each time they release a map?

This is something I did with my previous map Midnight Stalker and I know other players like to see demo's so I simply collected all the demo's I had tested together into one simple download file.

I suggest you take some deep breathes and think about what you are posting because at this point you are just trolling. You have already said on several occasions you don't like this map and far as I am concerned you are Flogging a dead horse. If you still feel the need to enforce your standards upon everyone I suggest you start a new thread.

@Spirit, your demo is included in the pack. You really should try the map a second time because there are plenty of choices and ways to get around the horde sections of the map. Check out some of my previous posts for possible solutions to the GK crusher room.

@Everyone else, please stop adding fuel to the fire. 

Here's some demos (fitz 0.85 with one level transition in the first demo):
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/backgammon.zip

Have to start with a glitch to explain why there are two demos. I was an idiot and didn't add -heapsize like the instructions said, so the engine was stalling all over the place. I killed the first shambler in the silver key section, and got stuck. I did try the right thing of jumping into the wind tunnel, but due to the low framerate I didn't get enough height to get in. I try a few other things but don't get anywhere, so you might as well stop watching demo #1 there.

I restarted the game with the right settings and demo2 takes over from there. Map is obviously lovely to look at, the subtle blue lighting makes everything look fresh and exciting. The multiple-arch motif is a good bit of character.

Combatwise there was lots to enjoy, several good ambushes and the two big "crescendo" horde combats worked well. Finding lots of cells and the armour in the start map was handy. Favourite moment was lining up 5 knights just right and crushing them all at once, closely followed by taking the quad and the ring at the same time and becoming the hidden assassin.

Got 8 out of 10 secrets, which by my going isn't bad. Also found some of the stuff in the start map, which was handy. Sometimes I did feel like I wasn't finding secrets until after they would be useful, maybe that info's more helpful for a second playthrough. I found the gold key vault by paying attention to the sound cue, but I guess I missed it for the silver key? I went back to get it though, so that's ok. 

http://members.upc.nl/verorber/demos/backs_239.rar 

i'm back using the old ppc mac again, the pc's c��ted.

there was mention of using fitz 0.85, but for a mac it only goes up to 0.80.

can i use quakespasm 0.85.7?

seriously, it's been about a year since i've tried to do maps/mods 'n' stuff, kinda rusty.. 

i derped like a f�ckwad!

folders all wrong..

stared playing, been a while, got my cheery ass handed to me VERY quickly, low on ammo, and i'l conservative.

this one is going to put me through my paces :) 

I just replayed In the Shadows. As awesome as this and Stalker are, I'm mega bummed the full release of ITS is never gonna happen. Those maps are beautiful.

Anyways, as I said above, please keep mapping for quake. 

Is still in development though? He released a slew of new screenshots a month or 2 back and this was after he said he wasn't working on it. 

where are these shots?!?

Ps recorded a fairly lame skill 3 run in which I play cheaply, spend lots of time scavenging for left over supplies, and forget where secrets I've already found are. Also, it seems to dead end in the final room, after killing the first Vore. Might be an issue on my end, I don't know. And it's 2:20 and I have to get up at like 7, so I won't find out. WIll post demo soon 

@Preach, thanks for the demo's I did not realize the frame rate could have such a big impact on the trigger push brushes. I only wanted the player to be affected by the trigger when they were directly underneath. I tucked the brushes inside of the tubes so if the player jumps up and hits the edge of the tube it does not activate the push trigger. It seems you had a lot of fun with the Quad/Inv powerup :D I can totally understand the fun of crushing monsters, it is the main reason I keep using them in my maps. :)

@Orbs! I was wondering when you were going to have a look at the map. It was your previous feedback (too linear) that inspired me to create more open routes and choices. You do realize that the GK side opens on hard skill and you don't need to do the SK side at all?

@Baz, I believe this map works fine with QuakeSpasm and I recommend you get the latest version as well. This maps breaks a lot of original Quake limits and needs an up to date engine.

@Drew, it is funny you should mention that because I have not touched the In the Shadows MOD in a long time and loaded it up a couple of days ago to check out (I recently discovered r_shadows console command) what it looked like. I am still working on this project but the updates are very slow. I do post updates / screenshots to my ModDB site and I recommend you keep an eye on the site if you want to know what is happening.

I do have a big update planned for the MOD In the Shadows and hopefully it should be ready for testing soon. I have a couple of new monster types, some new maps, tons of new sounds and more story! :D 

Quakespasm runs on a PPC Mac due to SleepWalkR's maestro-like Mac dev skills.

So you are in luck. 

But it's mostly Ozkan's skills, not mine ;-) 

Not a lot to add to what's been said already.

I like how layered and challenging everything is, there's a lot going on and a lot to figure out.

I think the combats could have been a bit more fearsome though... I expect they were when not using the traps and infighting so much.

I can see this being an entertaining map to watch in demos, just because it's so open to player interpretation, but not player confusion.

I was going to record a third demo, but it was just a load of wandering around and missing stuff.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/upwjwbgky8o9mm0/ijed_backstein.7z 

@ijed, thanks for the demo's it was cool to see what you did with the layout. The GK side probably seemed confusing because there are several ways to start it. I really wanted to design the map so it can be replayed several times and still be fresh with different routes.

The difficulty of the map is better if you don't use any of the secrets or stuff from the skill selection area. How far did you get with finding all the secrets? I assume you went back to have a look? 

But got stuck at 5 and ran out of time.

Like most (?) players I tend to overlook the obvious hints and only pick up on things subliminally. Reading the thread I see people making the connections of the demo faces meaning a secret and the various functionality of the tele-tiles.

These were all things I picked up on but didn't consciously consider. I just knew when monsters would appear and that there'd always be ammo in the center.

Still going back in for more secret spelunking.

I know the DBS is an easy secret and I'll kick myself when I finally figure it out. 

It does surprise me how few players don't see the visual language, but to be honest it is a subtle thing which comes over time. The first DBS secret should of been easy but the flow of that room is broken, which is why the blood soaked gates leading to the GA don't do anything anymore and the secret button is crazy hard to find. 

I wondered about those gates. Like the start of ITS with the fiend and the two gates - I get the feeling you struggle sometimes with the flow in the initial areas in your maps... but only because after that they're practically flawless.

Conveyance is a very tricky thing to get right, it's nice to see different approaches.

Which reminds me, I liked the fluted columns that converged to meet at the ceiling apices - made me look up a lot more and by relation around the level as well. Nicely offset by the variations in floor height. 

I actually thought that the bloody gates were designed to fuck with the player's head, as a kind of latent threat that's never delivered on (notice I didn't pick up that armor in my 1st run demo). And also a kind of a visual throwback to ITS maps. 

I always struggle with the beginning of a map because it has to strike the right balance between not being so difficult to put players off and enough of a challenge to keep players interested. Once the first room is over, the item / monster scaling is fairly straight forward.

Originally when the player picked up the GA the gates would lock and the relevant skill level monsters would spawn. Inside of each alcove was a row of spike shooters and button on the back of the central column. The player could move around and fight or use the shooters to weaken the monsters. It was a grand plan but in the end turned out to be sadistic towards the player so I dropped the locked gates and shooters and went with just the skill spawn trap instead.

After creating the gates and textures I thought it would be cool to leave them in as detail and to spook players into thinking something bad might happen but it does not. From the look of most demo's players indeed were cautious when passing under the gates so the thought of danger proved to be more potent than actual danger. 

I liked the fluted columns that converged to meet at the ceiling

I wanted the map to feel like it could support the world and that the structure of the room could support a huge amount of weight above. The best way to show support is with columns, but I did not want them everywhere because it would fragments the internal space of the room too much and cause the player to feel restricted.

I thought about creating Pilasters around the walls to show ceiling support but while they look interesting as detail they lack the impression of strength. The next idea was to create angled buttress because they can extend outwards into the room creating interesting shapes and imply support at the same time. Eventually I liked them so much I use them to round off all the corners in room and warp them upwards to create really strong vertical lines which is why everyone looks up. The architecture is leading the eye upwards and implying a strong structure. 

Yeah, I've only just started really thinking about the best way to show this. A believable structure that looks good is great for immersion.

Churches and cathedrals are a reference, specifically the joists and ceiling supports - the principals apply to any type of structure and provide the type of epic architecture that Quake needs.

Good architecture is my weakness though.

As to the first room - just an idea but you could have used it to teach the player about the rune floor / monster spawn mechanics;

The armor would be sat on one of the glowing rune textures. Upon picking it up the gates jerk down a fraction but don't close and a tele fx flashes in the room but doesn't spawn anything.

So the 'broken' spawn ambush teaches the player that things will happen later in this same set up, but does it in a safe environment.

And still scares the player right off the bat. 

i just like supports because they are an easy way to get the parallax effect by sticking them in the middle of rooms. 

Yeah, and they're good for gameplay as well, though you do have to space out the walls a bit to avoid it become too close and allow a bit of space for the player to dance around fiends in. 

As to the first room - just an idea but you could have used it to teach the player about the rune floor / monster spawn mechanics;
Like most (?) players I tend to overlook the obvious hints and only pick up on things subliminally.
I think you need to check the first room again! The floor under the GA is a flashing rune symbol! ;)

Great Architecture comes from shape, form and relevant texture choices. I highly recommend anyone interested in architecture to visit places and take photo's. As much as it is cool to constantly check out reference images, they do not beat actually being inside of a building and seeing the scale for yourself. 

Facepalm. 

haha, don't feel bad. i didn't make the connection either. i even told sock "hey, i think it's kind of predictable how monsters spawn every time i pick up items" :P~~