That was spot on. Not much else to be said about this IMO. Thanks for taking the time to write this down. 

They make games to make money. For this they read their markets.

The steam reviews on the beta indicate they seriously misread one of their markets (it is a market and as has been demonstrated - a valuable one; even if it is smaller than the console market it is far from negligible for the bottom line of the company).

Additionally again the MP is crucial, they can get good sales on SP alone on consoles, on PC not so due to the easy of pirating SP games.

The PC market probably is not asking for a reel oldskool twitch fest a la original Doom but it sure as fuck is not asking for what has been provided! Right or not? 

And to precise I'm not on the nostalgia angle for D4 - I regularly play D2 online and that is fine, I don't need more of that, its great, servers are populated, maps and gamemodes are great and plentiful, its all groovy there :D 

I think we should all take a moment to count our blessings. 

Spot-on post there. Thread closed imo. 

No, I think that for however shit that version might have been, at least it was honest about what it was. 

You can only carry two guns at a time

any gamepad wielding console kiddie can just pick up the demon spawn and blow everyone away

Are you trying to imply that these are actually good design choices? 

I've made various posts here and in lots of other places.

Doom 4's target audience was the console audience. The design choices of COD loadouts, slow gameplay, XP systems and levelling up, 2 weapons only...

It wouldn't have been difficult for them to look at the source material and think "why was doom great". There are countless videos online which demonstrate this.

Instead they looked at current games and then give it a Doom aesthetic. I'm not shitting on console players or even console games. I own every major console that has been put to market barring the xbox one. I love console games but I simply do not agree that people should cater to console gamers simply because they are the largest market.

If Zenimax want to make a quick buck out of the Doom franchise then that is their business, but PC gamers are a fickle bunch and will gladly divorce themselves from a franchise. Doom 4 will be the first id software game that I will not be buying on launch. I will be waiting to see the user reviews on Steam first (and very likely TotalBiscuits review). 

I always figured id would go down the tubes after selling out to Zenimax. The only question was which pipe they'd take. It's too bad they didn't just sell the ip and shutdown the company while still somewhat in their prime.

To be honest, multiplayer means nothing to me. If this new "Doom" doesn't get good reviews for the single player campaign, I won't be buying it any time soon. Maybe, as with Rage, in a year or so I'll be able to get it for $9 and be pleasantly surprised. 

However, I already bought it and will be playing the eve-living shit out of it on launch day. 

goodbye keyboard 

Lessons From Doom
Decisions That Matter
RetroAhoy: Doom

There probably isn't a single person on this forum that hasn't read or seen these, but hey. 

People like what they grey up with, funnily enough.

Kids who grew up with Halo and CoD tend to prefer that style of FPS over oldskool run-at-70-mph twitch shooters. 

Doom 4's target audience was the console audience. The design choices of COD loadouts, slow gameplay, XP systems and levelling up, 2 weapons only...

...are in the 2 out of 6 multiplayer game modes that have been released in the beta, so we shouldn't extrapolate from them to the other 4 nor to the singleplayer game. 

you are correct on that front.

It seems reasonable that what they have revealed so far is very representative of the online experience.

I expect the singleplayer to be more traditionally Doom-like and fortunately for me it's the thing I care about the most. If they screw up the SP then it will be a damn shame. 

Your sarcastic rant actually has a point.
THEY don't know any better.

Imagine a group of dudes (yes, this is sexist example, go with it) who only tried police-station-grade coffee. They would think that this is it, that is how coffee should taste like.

After tasting real deal some of them (manly hairy uber pro ones obviously) would understand that their whole life was a lie. Those would be totally screwed since nobody makes it right nowadays, because new generations grew up drinking bad coffee.

Others would go like "Boo, it increases my heart rate, doesn't have that creamy crap with a raccoon face on top and contains caffeine. I don't like it!" and they have a right to like whichever drinks they prefer, but why call it coffee? 

Ignorance is bliss.

Our rosy innocent aptitude at taking crap for gold has been desecrated by good quality games that try :P

I'll harp on again with this console/PC thing - is it really too much to really differentiate the versions on the gameplay angle instead of just the exact same game but with mouse + fov and no autoaim ?

Engine, assets everything else is good, its just tweaking that is needed there no ? Even if the games end up playing vastly differently - so what ?

Reviews differentiate the version of the game they are reviewing no ? 

I would have liked kditd's post. 

It seems reasonable that what they have revealed so far is very representative of the online experience.

I don't disagree. There's an element of trolling in my posts on this thread for sure; we can call it "exaggeration for emphasis" if you like ;)

I'd still say hold fire until we see what SP is like though. 

I'd still say hold fire until we see what SP is like though.

I fully agree... I don't give a single shit to DM and MP... SP campaign is THE thing to wait for :) 

Bethesda will be doing a SP campaign stream on twitch on the 25th. 

https://mobiforge.com/research-analysis/the-web-is-doom 

In late 1995, Doom was estimated to be installed on more computers worldwide than Microsoft's new operating system Windows 95, despite million-dollar advertising campaigns for the latter.15

Anyone saying that Doom wasn't synonymous with PC gaming in the 1990's is ignorant on the facts. 

Actually Myst was the biggest PC game of the 90s.

Doom was certainly synonymous with PC gaming in it's own subculture, but so far as the broader public were concerned it didn't exist.

Remember to view this in context - the whole "Doom on more PCs than Windows" thing dates to a time when Windows wasn't actually on a huge amount of PCs. 

I don't know how it was in other countries, but the broader public in Brazil certainly cared a lot more about Doom than about Myst. Doom was everywhere.