Doom is synonymous with PC gaming and should be developed for that audience first and then ported second. 

"Optimizing for consoles" is an oversimplification, and that's the point I was trying to get across.

How could stuff like loadouts, lack of pickup weapons and generic ammo pickups be an optimization? This kind of design choices have nothing to do with technical constraints. 

as these are design choices. I agree. It's crap 

In my time, console players were hardcore. From BattleToads to games like Super Contra, Street Fighter III, Donkey Kong Country Returns and Ikaruga. Console players used to enjoy playing challenging games. 

How could stuff like loadouts, lack of pickup weapons and generic ammo pickups be an optimization? This kind of design choices have nothing to do with technical constraints.

I'm not talking about "optimising performance" I'm using the term in its more general meaning. "Designing for" "catering for" would have been clearer, yes. 

Delivers what promises, 10/10, A+++ etc. 

@Fifth: It's a stretch to say that Doom is synonymous with PC games. It was a cool game 20 years ago that sort of defined the FPS formula and stood out with its excessive gore and violence, but there were many PC games as awesome as Doom. Diablo for one was absolutely huge. Tons of great classic games appeared on the PC around that time. Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout...

Great games also appeared on consoles. Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Vagrant Story, Metal Gear Solid...

Developing a game for PC first and then porting to console isn't economical for the large publishers, quite simply. PC k&m twitch shooter players (or esports players) are a minority compared to the console install base. Twitch shooters are moving from general use into esports, which makes complete sense. I mean Quakeworld and Q3 basically IS esports, just not always for money (just sometimes.)

I don't really see what's wrong with consoles, either. I can enjoy a lot of console games just fine. I had great times with consoles and love gamepads for their ergonomics. Consoles and gamepads won for a reason - accessibility, price and ease of use.

If you're looking for Bethesda / Zenimax to make you another twitch based k&m shooter, you're probably looking in the wrong direction. It's not justifiable to them. That's not where the big market is.

I can sort of understand the ire at putting the name Doom on it, but that's just how marketing works. On the other hand, you're not really entitled to tell them what to call their game. They own the IP. It's up to them.

The original Doom won't go away because of this, and the motivation of the developer/publisher is understandable, so I can't really understand the amount of outrage over this.

@ kp: I do think that the frame of reference that all the complainers have in mind is to a degree unrealistic or from the past. You can't apply your rosy memories of twenty year old games as a reference to what today's video game market should be like. Times have changed, and there are reasons for that. Quake fans aren't the target audience anymore.

There's nothing wrong with console gamers just wanting to have some fun with their buddies. That's actually totally legitimate. And if that is so common that it drives the market, then producers have to react. That's the free market. You can't just have the free market when it suits you. You have to take it lock stock and barrel and sometimes it does things you don't like. (This mostly @scarecrow who once told me how awesome the free market is.)

Fans of twitch shooters for PC have the opportunity of Kickstarting games like Strafe or Retroblazer or Reflex. That's the free market as well. It just seems that these games have a hard time. Their market is a niche that appears to be smaller than many people thought. What many of you seem to want has to be considered a specialty/niche/nostalgia product today.

I do agree with Shambler. Criticizing shit gameplay is OK. Just nostalgia and console hate isn't a good argument and that's 75% of this entire shitstorm. 

We dictate what's fun and what isn't! Not the average Joe and his buddies. We know better cause we're old school. They just thinknthey're having fun when really they aren't compared to all the fun they could be having if we had our way! 

That was spot on. Not much else to be said about this IMO. Thanks for taking the time to write this down. 

They make games to make money. For this they read their markets.

The steam reviews on the beta indicate they seriously misread one of their markets (it is a market and as has been demonstrated - a valuable one; even if it is smaller than the console market it is far from negligible for the bottom line of the company).

Additionally again the MP is crucial, they can get good sales on SP alone on consoles, on PC not so due to the easy of pirating SP games.

The PC market probably is not asking for a reel oldskool twitch fest a la original Doom but it sure as fuck is not asking for what has been provided! Right or not? 

And to precise I'm not on the nostalgia angle for D4 - I regularly play D2 online and that is fine, I don't need more of that, its great, servers are populated, maps and gamemodes are great and plentiful, its all groovy there :D 

I think we should all take a moment to count our blessings. 

Spot-on post there. Thread closed imo. 

No, I think that for however shit that version might have been, at least it was honest about what it was. 

You can only carry two guns at a time

any gamepad wielding console kiddie can just pick up the demon spawn and blow everyone away

Are you trying to imply that these are actually good design choices? 

I've made various posts here and in lots of other places.

Doom 4's target audience was the console audience. The design choices of COD loadouts, slow gameplay, XP systems and levelling up, 2 weapons only...

It wouldn't have been difficult for them to look at the source material and think "why was doom great". There are countless videos online which demonstrate this.

Instead they looked at current games and then give it a Doom aesthetic. I'm not shitting on console players or even console games. I own every major console that has been put to market barring the xbox one. I love console games but I simply do not agree that people should cater to console gamers simply because they are the largest market.

If Zenimax want to make a quick buck out of the Doom franchise then that is their business, but PC gamers are a fickle bunch and will gladly divorce themselves from a franchise. Doom 4 will be the first id software game that I will not be buying on launch. I will be waiting to see the user reviews on Steam first (and very likely TotalBiscuits review). 

I always figured id would go down the tubes after selling out to Zenimax. The only question was which pipe they'd take. It's too bad they didn't just sell the ip and shutdown the company while still somewhat in their prime.

To be honest, multiplayer means nothing to me. If this new "Doom" doesn't get good reviews for the single player campaign, I won't be buying it any time soon. Maybe, as with Rage, in a year or so I'll be able to get it for $9 and be pleasantly surprised. 

However, I already bought it and will be playing the eve-living shit out of it on launch day. 

goodbye keyboard 

Lessons From Doom
Decisions That Matter
RetroAhoy: Doom

There probably isn't a single person on this forum that hasn't read or seen these, but hey. 

People like what they grey up with, funnily enough.

Kids who grew up with Halo and CoD tend to prefer that style of FPS over oldskool run-at-70-mph twitch shooters. 

Doom 4's target audience was the console audience. The design choices of COD loadouts, slow gameplay, XP systems and levelling up, 2 weapons only...

...are in the 2 out of 6 multiplayer game modes that have been released in the beta, so we shouldn't extrapolate from them to the other 4 nor to the singleplayer game. 

you are correct on that front.

It seems reasonable that what they have revealed so far is very representative of the online experience.

I expect the singleplayer to be more traditionally Doom-like and fortunately for me it's the thing I care about the most. If they screw up the SP then it will be a damn shame. 

Your sarcastic rant actually has a point.
THEY don't know any better.

Imagine a group of dudes (yes, this is sexist example, go with it) who only tried police-station-grade coffee. They would think that this is it, that is how coffee should taste like.

After tasting real deal some of them (manly hairy uber pro ones obviously) would understand that their whole life was a lie. Those would be totally screwed since nobody makes it right nowadays, because new generations grew up drinking bad coffee.

Others would go like "Boo, it increases my heart rate, doesn't have that creamy crap with a raccoon face on top and contains caffeine. I don't like it!" and they have a right to like whichever drinks they prefer, but why call it coffee? 

Ignorance is bliss.

Our rosy innocent aptitude at taking crap for gold has been desecrated by good quality games that try :P

I'll harp on again with this console/PC thing - is it really too much to really differentiate the versions on the gameplay angle instead of just the exact same game but with mouse + fov and no autoaim ?

Engine, assets everything else is good, its just tweaking that is needed there no ? Even if the games end up playing vastly differently - so what ?

Reviews differentiate the version of the game they are reviewing no ?