After the bomb bug.

Also the Bob is what crashes demo playback in FitzQuake when playing a JoeQuake-recorded demo (I cant remember which protocol is which)

i.e. demos play fine untill a bob is encountered

Preach - Is a hotfix likely to be released at some point? :D 

Thanks for the full error message, it made it much easier for me to diagnose the bug. The crash occurs when a monster_bob gets telefragged. It was possible for it to escape the death animation sequence, the ghosting issue which can happen to fiends in the original quake progs. It turns into a crash though, because the gun model for a bob gets removed when it's health is below 0, even though the monster is "ghosted". So eventually you get an assign to world. The death sequence escape has been fixed, and the crash no longer occurs on this map - patch will be available soon. 

Oh yes, I remember this issue now: it has been solved in SRC only, and already reported.
SRC2 has the issue, as it has not been solved, and also because this map is older than SRC: it is a mix between monsters placement (too close) in the slime area with the stairs platform above, and the progs.dat issue...
Well, it is also partially my mistake, I have to admit it.. sorry for the trouble.. ;) 

Cool 

there is a minor bug with the screenshake entity aside from the missing default sounds. It prints some debug info when it is triggered. I presume this is not related to the lack of sounds. 

You want to get rid of the seismometer?

Ok, seriously, this has been noted and was fixed along with the earthquake sounds. Just holding off a bit to test the recent changes and see if anyone else knows a crash bug first. 

why doesn't eddie drop a backpack? 

it require to make a basic standalone version based on quoth(2) with no id non-GPL content (Free content is fine by me, doesn't have to be GPL. Id1 isn't free technically.)

Player model, a few guns besides the plasma..
There are probably already enough original monsters (four?) to have rudimentary playability. There is the excellent Knave texture set too.
I don't know what would be a good from scratch texture set for base maps. 

but why? there is Cube/sauer for a free fps if you really need one 

Quoth is cool that would enable it to more people. On all platforms too. 

yeah, go ahead and start the 'Quoth: free open source FPS' project, Im sure many will jump on 

I don't know if Quoth-only maps would work. It was made as an enhancement to Quake...

not enough weapons, not open source... copyright issues? ... basic monster types missing... textures...

would be fun to try a Quoth-only map (well as far as it's possible), perhaps a speedmap theme... then again, why not use the time and energy to make a proper Quake map...

I have thoroughly adopted it as a quasi-standard though, because it's readily available, makes some things much easier (spawning), and gives me many more options. I have to violently restrain myself from using such neaties as vorelings, breakables, and delayspawn in my current speedmap.

I would say that Quoth is the first thing I reach for, except that it's practically the other way around. Why _not_ use it, if it makes life easier...

I can understand if someone doesn't like the monsters, but even then it's just a neat package of handy func_s and info_s. 

..when Quake is already 12 years old and available very cheaply? Also, the amount of assets and code you would need to strip out would make it almost a completely different game. I know I don't want to play Quake without the grenade launcher, ogres or shamblers.

Anyway, like gb said, Quoth is a sort of standard for mappers as it contains not only a nice set of new monsters but also a lot of features that make mapping even easier. 

then maps and other creations could be used by a much larger audience.

But, the reason it will never happen is not due to the models .. Quake only has a very finite set of models (*) .. but because of the sounds.

The sounds in Quake are very high quality, are very numerous (70-100?) and go together very well.

Composition of Quake ..

(1) Player - high quality player model = easy
(2) 10 monsters or so = difficult
(3) 8 weapons = difficult
(4) All the health and ammo boxes are simply boxes = trivial
(5) Projectiles = rocket/grenade/nail = light
(6) Map retexturing = very difficult, but more a question of an endurance
(7) Sounds = nigh impossible

Sounds: all the different player noises, the weapon noises, the thud of a rocket, the drip of tunnel, the monster grunts, the dog bites, the scrag lurking, the cricketey swamp noises

Quake really has the sounds down perfectly. 

Baker
sound libs are easier to find than an animator
who isnt busy

than/gb
I wish that quoth was just
a lot of features that make mapping even easier. and monsters were in some other pack and vorelings never existed in the first place 

I was going to say exactly the same as Baker after briefly looking into it.

Openquartz uses quake sounds. I did test it, it was actually weird but not as bad as I feared.

Some of the quake sounds are from a sound library which you need a commercial licence of. There was a thread about it somewhen on some qw site where a guy had made a sound pak with the original 44 kHz sounds. For example the shaft is quite badly distorted in actual quake, but that kinda makes it better. :) 

the monsters are cool. Also, you needn't use them in your maps, right? 

me puts on the Evil Quake Purist hat 

that they have too much health!
They should be one shot -> dead enemies.
Sigh. 

You can make a map that looks and feels 100% like pure Quake, but still uses Quoth. It is totally transparent. The monsters are optional. It's kind of a honeymoon phase where everyone overuses them, but that will go away.

Transparent functions that I think are very nice to have would include the spawning, hub system, screenshake, breakables, rotateables, ladders, longtorches, info_multispawn (aka func_hordespawn), buttons that travel with lifts, new traps, sound players, console command entity, enhancements to existing entities, forcefields, monsters dropping keys... you name it...

all that in a neat package... although I would like to see most of the monsters split off into their own pak file... so you have a base Quoth, containing just the progs, plus what's required for breakables etc, plus some models and sprites (trees etc) plus signature monsters (voreling, rocketeer.)

The benefit would be that it would be a much smaller download. Quoth Lite?

Monsters' HP have been drastically reduced already, you should have seen the beta Sentinel, or beta Edie.

Vorelings are OK IMO, the problem is that they're still overused (groups of them) without appropriate firepower given. A nailgun is enough against a small group, SNG/GL is IMO required for larger groups.

Concerning Quake sounds, it is possible to substitute them with Creative Commons licensed samples (plus self-made voice acting), but it's true that some sounds are so unique that players wouldn't want to miss them. That is a general problem with replacements, players are going to warez the original instead because it will almost certainly be better.

give me 600 dollars and I'll buy a copy of the General collection (where most of them come from) and assemble a pak. But I don't know how legal it would be to distribute them along a GPL Quake replacement.

Quoth sounds, let's not go there. Nobody guarantees that they're royalty free. Modified id skins, models... same goes for knave.wad, do you honestly see no modified id textures in there? Look again...

You can have the first episode plus a modern engine for free already, in Gentoo it's as simple as

emerge ezquake-bin quake1-demodata

and there you go... more engines are on their way into the various package managers every day...

and there are warsow, nexuiz, alienarena, quake2-demodata (you can play online with just the q2 demo plus latest patch), quakedoomblah-demo, doom1/2 shareware, rtcw, cube/sauer, AA...

linux/bsd users have access to hours and hours of free fps games and modern engines already.

look @ www.happypenguin.org.

needless to say, a free original Quake at least covering online gaming (= you can get on a normal server with it) would indeed increase Quake's popularity.

Id could release a patch that upgrades the shareware to a standard-multiplayer-capable version, like Quake 2... 

Is Quoth 2 fully compatible with Quoth 1 maps?

I don't care about save game files, I just means do the maps work fine with it? 

have the bomb in them it crashes when triggered

you have to use quoth1 for that 

There is a fix coming for that, but it might still be two/three weeks off. Which isn't to say that it's a hard bug to fix, the required change is there. I'm just making sure that everything is stable so there only needs to be one patch to sort everything out - and that has to wait until exams finish. As a freebie there will also be lots of performance improvement thrown in : - ). 

it is compatible 

your hubs dont save each map state, right?