Many PC Gamers feel like it's insulting or a slap in the face to them as they were the people who supported their game originally and made them successful.

To be honest, many PC gamers are behaving like entitled babies.

You hand over your money, you get your game, and that's where any relationships or obligations between you and the developer start and end. The developer is certainly not obliged to make their next game the way you want it to be. They already got the payback for handing over their money and now they want more? 

GrizzlyRed @branrags 8h8 hours ago
@idSoftwareTiago So many negative reviews on Steam!

Tiago Sousa @idSoftwareTiago 8h8 hours ago
@branrags I know right? On PS4 last I checked was 5/5, XB1 4.5/5.0 rating

The days of developers catering to the self-styled "PC Master Race" crowd are long over. Sorry chaps. 

It's not the past but the present: They're releasing on PC, so the PC users expect an experience that runs well, and feels good on the PC.

The gameplay is clearly optimized around gamepads, which is most certainly not the primary input device for PC.

id released an open beta on each platform. They got feedback on each platform. One of those platforms is having a majority negative experience due to the support for the others. This is being voiced, correctly, through reviews, comments, and canceled pre-orders. 

 

You should see the Skyrim and Fallout console players reacting to mod videos... They certainly regard it as an upgrade.

The Doom 4 mp was designed by people who design for consoles, it's pretty logical that console players would enjoy this more. It's on par with if some in this community somehow got their hands on the Halo IP rights and did a multiplatform release where the design favored PC - the review situation would flip. 

What I just do not understand is how investors / shareholders / management and whoever else is responsible for the profit generated by the venture let this kind of shit slip by on a large and expensive project of the kind ?

Fuck the PC MP up and all you will have is people torrenting the game for the SP.

I mean they have the game ready and all, its just tweaking or basically modding the existing game for it to play well on PC. Cannot be that much of an expensive investment to dedicate a small team to the task for the chance of doubling or tripling the PC sales (and no PC is not a small worthless market)

The ROI is obvious.

On the other hand if all major studios keep on like this they will certainly be making sure the propehcy of "oh my godz there is no moneyh in the PC market, fuck em" fulfills itself. 

#1528 the idea to me here is for the MP portion the game can be vastly different between the platforms, because why not if there is no cross platform MP ??

You telling me a full fledged professional studio does not have it in them to change gameplay variables, inventory, map layouts etc ?

It is not designing a whole new SP campaing, engine, assets etc etc. 

To Be Honest, Many PC Gamers Want Games That Are Less Shit.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Calling out a game that's shit because it's shit is fine, OK, perfectly in order, expected, one's natural right, something would be wrong with you if you didn't.

Behaving like an entitled whingeing baby who believes that the developers somehow owe them something while doing so? Nah, that's not gonna fly. 

http://i.imgur.com/X8gk0wv.gifv 

I don't recall what the change was, but Black Ops 3 recently forked on balance patches. PC received different changes to weapons than XBO/PS4. So, Treyarch knows how to do it. 

I see no sense in the "this is how console games should be" argument.

The original Doom was perfectly playable in the SNES. Doom 64 had nearly identical gameplay to Doom and Doom II, and even more intricate map layouts. Duke Nukem 64 multiplayer is very fun, and Unreal Tournament is also good to play with gamepads on the Dreamcast. When Doom II was released on the Xbox Live it was very successful and highly acclaimed by users for its fun multiplayer.

Sure, analog sticks are less accurate than a mouse, but it doesn't necessarily make a game less fun. On my Quake port to the Dreamcast (Makaqu) I've made sure to code and test all aspects of the analog stick input by implementing deadzone, threshold, normalization, FOV-scaled sensitivity and so on, and it became pretty fun to play � in fact, the only time I've beaten the whole game was when playing it on that Dreamcast port. The only FPS I've really had a hard time to control it with a gamepad is Quake III Arena.

I've skipped most modern shooter franchises, including all the military ones (COD, MOH, BF, FC, etc.), but using a gamepad doesn't make classic FPS gameplay inherently broken. 

I don't know about SNES playability... but Doom64 was certainly not lacking in difficulty. As I recall it was regarded as very hard - but also as a fun and good game.

Doom2 on XBL, I recall a friend who was doing well, but ran into difficulty because he needed to switch weapons quickly, and though it has a weapon swap queue, so you can triple tap the button (I think Y), to go from pistol to rocket launcher for example, it had just enough latency to make the game a lot harder for him than it was on PC (and he is primarily a console gamer).

So, it's not completely unfeasible, but rather, it has a higher skill floor, and that cuts out a lot of initial players. 

Was pretty difficult not only in the labyrinthine design but also the fact you could barely see where you were going! The haunting soundtrack was top notch as well...legitimately a frightening game.

Come to think of it, I really enjoyed Quake 64 as well. It was actually my first Quake experience and it scared the living crap out of me.

Erm anyway I still will bide my judgment until I see how the Single Player fares for DOOM. 

The thing is, these games are always designed from the ground up to be optimised for the console/controller (because that's the most profitable platform), and they are aimed at a mass audience, not just the elite players.

They are never designed as PC games first, with a "nerfed" fork for the console crowd.

FPS games *could* and *should* be forked for PC and console, but what happens is the publishers crunch the numbers and decide it's not worth their time. Whatcha gonna do?

Didn't Epic Games famously state many years ago that the PC is no longer worth their time? I imagine most publishers & devs have the same opinion even if they won't publicly say so. 

Kinn :
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-01-26-pc-trumps-mobile-console-in-booming-usd61bn-digital-games-market

For Doom4 we can skip the stuff about free 2 play and mmorpgs / social games etc.

Lets look at GTA V here as a comparable full price pay up front game with SP and MP : http://cdn.gamer-network.net/2015/articles/1/8/0/7/7/7/4/145382136822.jpg at GTA V as an example - 322mill$ revenvue on consoles. 205mill$ on PC.

Yes Consoles may bring in more income on this kind of title, but the PC part is non negligible.

Im saying they could surely substantially raise their take-in on the PC version by treating it seriously instead of pussying out on it a la Epic Games or whatever... 

People who dismiss the negative reviews as "people stuck in the 90's" are, at worst, dishonest and, at best, blind to the obvious issues with the game. OTH, quite a few of the negative reviews are so poorly articulated that "not doom 1 or 2 = not fun" is the only thing you can really take away from it.

I think TotalBiscuit put it well when he said that the MP is essentially a "master of none".

This could just as easily been Quake V. Replace the super shotgun with a nailgun and the demon rune with a nether rune and BAM, Quake V. This is just as much Quake V as it is Doom 4.

I get that the console market is huge and think that it's only right and natural to develop for it, I certainly enjoy some console games. But damn, did no one stop and think that maybe plastering the doom ip, you know, the one that is synonymous with PC gaming, the PC game of all time, onto a nebulous blob of a console game could possibly be a bad idea? I just don't understand why doom? Why, of all ips, why doom? WHY? That's a rhetorical question, of course, and the answer is obvious. That is what I find insulting, the whoring of a beloved ip. 

there's always one... every time. 

Doom is synonymous with PC gaming and should be developed for that audience first and then ported second. 

"Optimizing for consoles" is an oversimplification, and that's the point I was trying to get across.

How could stuff like loadouts, lack of pickup weapons and generic ammo pickups be an optimization? This kind of design choices have nothing to do with technical constraints. 

as these are design choices. I agree. It's crap 

In my time, console players were hardcore. From BattleToads to games like Super Contra, Street Fighter III, Donkey Kong Country Returns and Ikaruga. Console players used to enjoy playing challenging games. 

How could stuff like loadouts, lack of pickup weapons and generic ammo pickups be an optimization? This kind of design choices have nothing to do with technical constraints.

I'm not talking about "optimising performance" I'm using the term in its more general meaning. "Designing for" "catering for" would have been clearer, yes. 

Delivers what promises, 10/10, A+++ etc. 

@Fifth: It's a stretch to say that Doom is synonymous with PC games. It was a cool game 20 years ago that sort of defined the FPS formula and stood out with its excessive gore and violence, but there were many PC games as awesome as Doom. Diablo for one was absolutely huge. Tons of great classic games appeared on the PC around that time. Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout...

Great games also appeared on consoles. Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Vagrant Story, Metal Gear Solid...

Developing a game for PC first and then porting to console isn't economical for the large publishers, quite simply. PC k&m twitch shooter players (or esports players) are a minority compared to the console install base. Twitch shooters are moving from general use into esports, which makes complete sense. I mean Quakeworld and Q3 basically IS esports, just not always for money (just sometimes.)

I don't really see what's wrong with consoles, either. I can enjoy a lot of console games just fine. I had great times with consoles and love gamepads for their ergonomics. Consoles and gamepads won for a reason - accessibility, price and ease of use.

If you're looking for Bethesda / Zenimax to make you another twitch based k&m shooter, you're probably looking in the wrong direction. It's not justifiable to them. That's not where the big market is.

I can sort of understand the ire at putting the name Doom on it, but that's just how marketing works. On the other hand, you're not really entitled to tell them what to call their game. They own the IP. It's up to them.

The original Doom won't go away because of this, and the motivation of the developer/publisher is understandable, so I can't really understand the amount of outrage over this.

@ kp: I do think that the frame of reference that all the complainers have in mind is to a degree unrealistic or from the past. You can't apply your rosy memories of twenty year old games as a reference to what today's video game market should be like. Times have changed, and there are reasons for that. Quake fans aren't the target audience anymore.

There's nothing wrong with console gamers just wanting to have some fun with their buddies. That's actually totally legitimate. And if that is so common that it drives the market, then producers have to react. That's the free market. You can't just have the free market when it suits you. You have to take it lock stock and barrel and sometimes it does things you don't like. (This mostly @scarecrow who once told me how awesome the free market is.)

Fans of twitch shooters for PC have the opportunity of Kickstarting games like Strafe or Retroblazer or Reflex. That's the free market as well. It just seems that these games have a hard time. Their market is a niche that appears to be smaller than many people thought. What many of you seem to want has to be considered a specialty/niche/nostalgia product today.

I do agree with Shambler. Criticizing shit gameplay is OK. Just nostalgia and console hate isn't a good argument and that's 75% of this entire shitstorm. 

We dictate what's fun and what isn't! Not the average Joe and his buddies. We know better cause we're old school. They just thinknthey're having fun when really they aren't compared to all the fun they could be having if we had our way!