They have waaay enough resources to make alternative MP rules/gamemodes for PC and Console versions as the 2 populations do not interact in MP.

Ahhh that would be too much work above the minimum effort eh ?

There is no justification for the job they have done, sorry. There is money in making a dumbed down console Doom, no doubts there.
There is also money in making a well loved MP portion for the PC version at the same time as the console dumb-dumb stuff.

As it looks so far they will make plenty money on console and miss out on plenty of cash on the PC version. Why not have both ?

No to mention the damage they do to the IP.
It is an opportunity to keep the strength of the just about most recognizable and respected FPS IP ever.


It simply has to have good MP for a financial success on PC plain and simple.
(yes if MP sucks many will simply pirate for the SP and not pay a cent on PC).

It cannot even be justified with cold business sense Kinn. The studios and management are not up to the task of maximizing profit potential there, if I were a large shareholder I would chew them up for it. 

They dropped the ball, in a big way, I'm not trying to justify it. I just wanted to offer my thoughts from a more charitable angle. Also, like mfx, I feel bad for the team.

On that note, where does the culpability really lie? The executive producer (stratton)? zeni execs? I was under the impression that zenimax had a 'hands-off' approach with id. How much of the id team really has a say? Aren't there veterans there that have a bit of influence?

I this is all really interesting; the dynamic between id, zenimax, the doom ip and the customer and how it's all playing out.

Is this game really just a cash grab or is it people with good intentions simply making mistakes? Who knows. The hiring of hugo martin as art director still seems strange. He has experience and is very talented but nothing he's ever done looked like doom (or id anything) to me. Also, I'm pretty sure he's worked on halo at some point. 

I agree that in an ideal world they should ship with two different MP gamemodes, one for PC and one for consoles. The different platforms require different design sensibilities and obviously they went with the one that has the higher playerbase (more moneys), so I can understand why the higher ups went "fuck the PC". It makes them tossers, but I understand why those sorts of decisions get made. 

I was under the impression that zenimax had a 'hands-off' approach with id.

Not since Rage flopped, no. 

There's not really much id left at id anyway. The few that remain from the original Doom and Quake days are apparently the ones that had no idea what they were doing.

65% negative feedback for the open beta on Steam. Hopeless. 

Wait a minute....

https://www.bluesnews.com/s/170833/new-john-romero-pc-shooter-teased 

If Romero's FPS makes Doom 4 its b****, that will be one of the biggest comebacks in gaming history. 

"A Steam Community Group Announcement has word that the DOOM Open Beta on Steam has been extended, and everyone has an additional 24 hours to check out id's new installment in their shooter series. Word is: "You asked for it! We're extending DOOM Open Beta for an extra day."

Nooo please no more! We will stop posting negative reviews, we weren't asking for it promised...help!! 

Just been looking at the Sight-seeing is not an option fan video, and one thing jumps out at me.

In Doom 3 virtually every room had something moving in it. It might be a fan, a piece of equipment, stuff on a conveyor-belt, a swinging light, whatever. It was there, it was simple but effective, and it really created such a sense of immersion: this was a world that people lived in, and there's stuff in this room that will go on even after you've left it.

In Rage that was all gone. The world was static, and the game suffered as a result.

In what we've seen of Doom 4 it's gone too. Sure, there's particles floating about and some liquid effects, but there's nothing (or at best very little) in the way of moving objects there.

Maybe what we've seen so far is primarily MP, and maybe this absence is an optimization for MP, I dunno. It is an observation about Doom 3 vs Rage that I don't recall seeing before though. 

Moving parts in MP would be a bad idea regardless of the performance.

When I catch movement with a corner of my eye I want to be sure it is an enemy (or teammate), not an eye-candy that will get me distracted and possibly killed. 

 

It partially depends on what the mp is going for: Are these arenas for combat (as they are in Q3A/QL and UT), or are they places where combat is happening (most other games, Quake, CoD, Halo, Titanfall, Battlefield)?

If the former, you can argue for the purity of the combatant's focus. If the latter, well, there should be an indication it ever served another purpose.

The monitors displaying the UAC logo and a technical difficulties warning implies that it is a functional facility. The same can be said of the patterns in the blood, suggesting a ritual.

Also, not all movement is just decoration. Quake's moving platforms in dm2 liven up the map and allow for skilled movement decisions. The flittering bits of newspaper in CoD are intentionally there to distract your eyes momentarily from choke points - or hilariously make you twitch fire at them, creating a red dot on the minimap.

I never felt distracted by the ambient moving elements like fans and swinging lights - it was when they only sometimes triggered that they distracted me.

I guess I'm very neutral on this, so long as it is a consistent design approach for the given game. 

https://twitter.com/idSoftwareTiago/status/722278225326379008

The id developers are certainly aware of the criticism. 

when a game that has its roots firmly planted in the PC space but gets "console-ised". It happened with Deus Ex and Thief (Thief 4 and Deadly Shadows were both slammed for being dumbed down) as well.

Many PC Gamers feel like it's insulting or a slap in the face to them as they were the people who supported their game originally and made them successful. At least that's how I see it. 

Many PC Gamers feel like it's insulting or a slap in the face to them as they were the people who supported their game originally and made them successful.

To be honest, many PC gamers are behaving like entitled babies.

You hand over your money, you get your game, and that's where any relationships or obligations between you and the developer start and end. The developer is certainly not obliged to make their next game the way you want it to be. They already got the payback for handing over their money and now they want more? 

GrizzlyRed @branrags 8h8 hours ago
@idSoftwareTiago So many negative reviews on Steam!

Tiago Sousa @idSoftwareTiago 8h8 hours ago
@branrags I know right? On PS4 last I checked was 5/5, XB1 4.5/5.0 rating

The days of developers catering to the self-styled "PC Master Race" crowd are long over. Sorry chaps. 

It's not the past but the present: They're releasing on PC, so the PC users expect an experience that runs well, and feels good on the PC.

The gameplay is clearly optimized around gamepads, which is most certainly not the primary input device for PC.

id released an open beta on each platform. They got feedback on each platform. One of those platforms is having a majority negative experience due to the support for the others. This is being voiced, correctly, through reviews, comments, and canceled pre-orders. 

 

You should see the Skyrim and Fallout console players reacting to mod videos... They certainly regard it as an upgrade.

The Doom 4 mp was designed by people who design for consoles, it's pretty logical that console players would enjoy this more. It's on par with if some in this community somehow got their hands on the Halo IP rights and did a multiplatform release where the design favored PC - the review situation would flip. 

What I just do not understand is how investors / shareholders / management and whoever else is responsible for the profit generated by the venture let this kind of shit slip by on a large and expensive project of the kind ?

Fuck the PC MP up and all you will have is people torrenting the game for the SP.

I mean they have the game ready and all, its just tweaking or basically modding the existing game for it to play well on PC. Cannot be that much of an expensive investment to dedicate a small team to the task for the chance of doubling or tripling the PC sales (and no PC is not a small worthless market)

The ROI is obvious.

On the other hand if all major studios keep on like this they will certainly be making sure the propehcy of "oh my godz there is no moneyh in the PC market, fuck em" fulfills itself. 

#1528 the idea to me here is for the MP portion the game can be vastly different between the platforms, because why not if there is no cross platform MP ??

You telling me a full fledged professional studio does not have it in them to change gameplay variables, inventory, map layouts etc ?

It is not designing a whole new SP campaing, engine, assets etc etc. 

To Be Honest, Many PC Gamers Want Games That Are Less Shit.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Calling out a game that's shit because it's shit is fine, OK, perfectly in order, expected, one's natural right, something would be wrong with you if you didn't.

Behaving like an entitled whingeing baby who believes that the developers somehow owe them something while doing so? Nah, that's not gonna fly. 

http://i.imgur.com/X8gk0wv.gifv 

I don't recall what the change was, but Black Ops 3 recently forked on balance patches. PC received different changes to weapons than XBO/PS4. So, Treyarch knows how to do it. 

I see no sense in the "this is how console games should be" argument.

The original Doom was perfectly playable in the SNES. Doom 64 had nearly identical gameplay to Doom and Doom II, and even more intricate map layouts. Duke Nukem 64 multiplayer is very fun, and Unreal Tournament is also good to play with gamepads on the Dreamcast. When Doom II was released on the Xbox Live it was very successful and highly acclaimed by users for its fun multiplayer.

Sure, analog sticks are less accurate than a mouse, but it doesn't necessarily make a game less fun. On my Quake port to the Dreamcast (Makaqu) I've made sure to code and test all aspects of the analog stick input by implementing deadzone, threshold, normalization, FOV-scaled sensitivity and so on, and it became pretty fun to play � in fact, the only time I've beaten the whole game was when playing it on that Dreamcast port. The only FPS I've really had a hard time to control it with a gamepad is Quake III Arena.

I've skipped most modern shooter franchises, including all the military ones (COD, MOH, BF, FC, etc.), but using a gamepad doesn't make classic FPS gameplay inherently broken.