Sock

* About the ammo:
I am by default someone that plays cautiously and that don't like to expend consumables if there isn't a good reason (for example most times i die in strategy games its because i saved too much resources and didn't expend them).
If you are talking about the second attempt, i do think i haven't done anything special, in fact i missed the traps and crushers, used the Quad very badly, and the monster infighting wasn't mainly on purpose.
If you are talking about the third, yes, i did some things: i used all the nail traps, even on monsters beyond those intended, searched actively for monster infighting to the point that on the central part, i retreated to the entrance so when the knights and hell knights went for me they would be hit for sure by the scrags, as both will be at the same height, but the things i do think that worked the best to save ammo were:
- Use the explosives only with groups.
- Use the quad at the best time.
Next time i'll put full demos, even if they become huge, so the mapper can see everything.
When i play a map with restricted ammo i use some tricks (not axing as i am awful with it). This time i wasn't actively and with the intention of trying to save ammo.

* About the LG, keep placing it in in future maps at the beginning if you like, it is a good idea. We don't use it because we are too used to that it is a luxury we can only find in the last parts of the maps/episodes, so even if you give it to us at the beginning, we will still use it only at the last parts.
After killing so many, i do think that no monster makes us nervous (maybe the gug), even the shamblers, so we don't use the LG against him. Being so used to kill them with SSG and SNG is another reason.
Resuming, keep placing it there, we will get used to that sooner or later and begin using it more (but i would restrict the ammo for it a bit if there is many combats that rely on surprises and ambushes, as the LG can render those combats useless).

* About the use of textures as signs, i was just commenting about it, about the fact that it is a double edged sword, that adds to the map a lot, but can lead to some situations when the player can use them in some unfair way, even though in your case it wasn't like that.

* there isn't too many rooms that make you look amazed at them, even more with the SK side. Mabe it is that big rooms look more epic

I haven't used the right words in this part, and you have to get the meaning in this part not phrase by phrase or this small part, more like the whole paragraph.
What i wanted to say in that paragraph is that even if they are detailed, and have their own distinct personality, those rooms at the SK side give the same type of feeling, so after going through many of them, the player can get the feeling that all of them are similar.
This feeling can be appreciated more because the textures are using mainly the same colours, red/brown. This feeling isn't so obvious in the GK side because there is many types of rooms.

By the way, as a mapper,for the brushwork and architecture, i do prefer too the SK side, for the layout and the combats, the GK side. 

@Drew, thanks for your demo,

List of contributors : Berntsen, Cocerello, Daz, distrans, Drew, FifthElephant, generic, Johnny Law, mfx, Mwh, onetruepurple, quakis, Scampie, Shambler, SleepwalkR, Spirit, spy and Vondur.

Wow. All this thanks going out to people; and a list of contributors; and a large archive of demos. Yet, you forgot to mention/include my name.

You haven't thanked me for the time I took/spent to provide you with a demo and feedback despite the fact that I didn't want to play the map anyways; but I did so anyways, because I felt like doing a good deed.

Hard to assume that you merely forgot though, given my posts/attention in this thread. So, it almost seems likely that you have not forgot, but instead you're giving me "the silent treatment" because my positive feedback included complains about how you release and how you package your "map" (not "mod"?).

Heh. Funny.

The least you could've done was said "I'm sorry to hear that. But thank you for demo."

Oh well. I guess I can't always expect appreciation and patience from people, because not all people are mature enough to do so regardless of the situation. This lowers my expectations of people, and helps strengthen my own patience though; so, in a way, I should thank you for that. Thanks.

---

By the way, why are you releasing a pack of demos? Is that the trend now a days that mappers do after each time they release a map? Asking favors from people to record/submit their demos, then collecting/packaging them all and releasing an archive of those demos back out to the public; and so soon? Is that the trend now?, or is that just something you're doing (now) as a way to "rub it in" the silent treatment you're giving me--because you figured I'd notice it.

Funny. 

stop acting like an entitled little bitch.

The guy is making great maps for an old game in his, presumably, spare time. The amount of time and effort it takes to make these and get the balance right is immense. And you're sitting there moaning because what? Because he didn't mention your name in a post and include your demo in a .zip file?

Well so bloody what! 

 

I did not notice the map being non linear (i avoid reading long text in readme files in fear of spoilers) so I am looking forward to replay it!

deqer: i would have sent that as mail, such anger in public can only end badly. 

you are an idiot. 

It's all a conspiracy! 

It won't help anyone. 

Anyways. I played through, and died, and didn't bother to give it a second try; because second-run demos is not what you're interested in, and I already hated every experience I had so far with this anyways.

I did not see the point in checking your demo because you were already in a bad frame of mind before you even played the map. Any first playthrough feedback you could offer would be coloured by your frustration at expecting the map package to be setup to your liking. There was plenty of instructions in the readme file to how to config the map to your liking and for some reason you decided to ignore it.

By the way, why are you releasing a pack of demos? Is that the trend now a days that mappers do after each time they release a map?

This is something I did with my previous map Midnight Stalker and I know other players like to see demo's so I simply collected all the demo's I had tested together into one simple download file.

I suggest you take some deep breathes and think about what you are posting because at this point you are just trolling. You have already said on several occasions you don't like this map and far as I am concerned you are Flogging a dead horse. If you still feel the need to enforce your standards upon everyone I suggest you start a new thread.

@Spirit, your demo is included in the pack. You really should try the map a second time because there are plenty of choices and ways to get around the horde sections of the map. Check out some of my previous posts for possible solutions to the GK crusher room.

@Everyone else, please stop adding fuel to the fire. 

Here's some demos (fitz 0.85 with one level transition in the first demo):
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/backgammon.zip

Have to start with a glitch to explain why there are two demos. I was an idiot and didn't add -heapsize like the instructions said, so the engine was stalling all over the place. I killed the first shambler in the silver key section, and got stuck. I did try the right thing of jumping into the wind tunnel, but due to the low framerate I didn't get enough height to get in. I try a few other things but don't get anywhere, so you might as well stop watching demo #1 there.

I restarted the game with the right settings and demo2 takes over from there. Map is obviously lovely to look at, the subtle blue lighting makes everything look fresh and exciting. The multiple-arch motif is a good bit of character.

Combatwise there was lots to enjoy, several good ambushes and the two big "crescendo" horde combats worked well. Finding lots of cells and the armour in the start map was handy. Favourite moment was lining up 5 knights just right and crushing them all at once, closely followed by taking the quad and the ring at the same time and becoming the hidden assassin.

Got 8 out of 10 secrets, which by my going isn't bad. Also found some of the stuff in the start map, which was handy. Sometimes I did feel like I wasn't finding secrets until after they would be useful, maybe that info's more helpful for a second playthrough. I found the gold key vault by paying attention to the sound cue, but I guess I missed it for the silver key? I went back to get it though, so that's ok. 

http://members.upc.nl/verorber/demos/backs_239.rar 

i'm back using the old ppc mac again, the pc's c��ted.

there was mention of using fitz 0.85, but for a mac it only goes up to 0.80.

can i use quakespasm 0.85.7?

seriously, it's been about a year since i've tried to do maps/mods 'n' stuff, kinda rusty.. 

i derped like a f�ckwad!

folders all wrong..

stared playing, been a while, got my cheery ass handed to me VERY quickly, low on ammo, and i'l conservative.

this one is going to put me through my paces :) 

I just replayed In the Shadows. As awesome as this and Stalker are, I'm mega bummed the full release of ITS is never gonna happen. Those maps are beautiful.

Anyways, as I said above, please keep mapping for quake. 

Is still in development though? He released a slew of new screenshots a month or 2 back and this was after he said he wasn't working on it. 

where are these shots?!?

Ps recorded a fairly lame skill 3 run in which I play cheaply, spend lots of time scavenging for left over supplies, and forget where secrets I've already found are. Also, it seems to dead end in the final room, after killing the first Vore. Might be an issue on my end, I don't know. And it's 2:20 and I have to get up at like 7, so I won't find out. WIll post demo soon 

@Preach, thanks for the demo's I did not realize the frame rate could have such a big impact on the trigger push brushes. I only wanted the player to be affected by the trigger when they were directly underneath. I tucked the brushes inside of the tubes so if the player jumps up and hits the edge of the tube it does not activate the push trigger. It seems you had a lot of fun with the Quad/Inv powerup :D I can totally understand the fun of crushing monsters, it is the main reason I keep using them in my maps. :)

@Orbs! I was wondering when you were going to have a look at the map. It was your previous feedback (too linear) that inspired me to create more open routes and choices. You do realize that the GK side opens on hard skill and you don't need to do the SK side at all?

@Baz, I believe this map works fine with QuakeSpasm and I recommend you get the latest version as well. This maps breaks a lot of original Quake limits and needs an up to date engine.

@Drew, it is funny you should mention that because I have not touched the In the Shadows MOD in a long time and loaded it up a couple of days ago to check out (I recently discovered r_shadows console command) what it looked like. I am still working on this project but the updates are very slow. I do post updates / screenshots to my ModDB site and I recommend you keep an eye on the site if you want to know what is happening.

I do have a big update planned for the MOD In the Shadows and hopefully it should be ready for testing soon. I have a couple of new monster types, some new maps, tons of new sounds and more story! :D 

Quakespasm runs on a PPC Mac due to SleepWalkR's maestro-like Mac dev skills.

So you are in luck. 

But it's mostly Ozkan's skills, not mine ;-) 

Not a lot to add to what's been said already.

I like how layered and challenging everything is, there's a lot going on and a lot to figure out.

I think the combats could have been a bit more fearsome though... I expect they were when not using the traps and infighting so much.

I can see this being an entertaining map to watch in demos, just because it's so open to player interpretation, but not player confusion.

I was going to record a third demo, but it was just a load of wandering around and missing stuff.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/upwjwbgky8o9mm0/ijed_backstein.7z 

@ijed, thanks for the demo's it was cool to see what you did with the layout. The GK side probably seemed confusing because there are several ways to start it. I really wanted to design the map so it can be replayed several times and still be fresh with different routes.

The difficulty of the map is better if you don't use any of the secrets or stuff from the skill selection area. How far did you get with finding all the secrets? I assume you went back to have a look? 

But got stuck at 5 and ran out of time.

Like most (?) players I tend to overlook the obvious hints and only pick up on things subliminally. Reading the thread I see people making the connections of the demo faces meaning a secret and the various functionality of the tele-tiles.

These were all things I picked up on but didn't consciously consider. I just knew when monsters would appear and that there'd always be ammo in the center.

Still going back in for more secret spelunking.

I know the DBS is an easy secret and I'll kick myself when I finally figure it out. 

It does surprise me how few players don't see the visual language, but to be honest it is a subtle thing which comes over time. The first DBS secret should of been easy but the flow of that room is broken, which is why the blood soaked gates leading to the GA don't do anything anymore and the secret button is crazy hard to find. 

I wondered about those gates. Like the start of ITS with the fiend and the two gates - I get the feeling you struggle sometimes with the flow in the initial areas in your maps... but only because after that they're practically flawless.

Conveyance is a very tricky thing to get right, it's nice to see different approaches.

Which reminds me, I liked the fluted columns that converged to meet at the ceiling apices - made me look up a lot more and by relation around the level as well. Nicely offset by the variations in floor height. 

I actually thought that the bloody gates were designed to fuck with the player's head, as a kind of latent threat that's never delivered on (notice I didn't pick up that armor in my 1st run demo). And also a kind of a visual throwback to ITS maps.