Some people criticize Remake Quake as not being "Quake" enough and cry about it.

It is titled 'Remake' Quake. I was expecting something that enhanced the simple and effective gameplay of Quake that I enjoy (otherwise, I wouldn't give a fuck about a mod of an outdated game) and updated it into modern visuals. Instead I got a mod which is barely more than a conglomeration of the terrible crap that modders were making 10+ years ago with no interesting modern innovation, along with amatuerish sounds, textures, lighting, map design, and models.

My personal opinion is that aside from Negke --- who I believe is an especially unique enigma unmatched in his unconventional and perfectionist style --- that the 1,376 id1 maps at Quaddicted adequately cover everything of substance that is ever gonna be done with id1 Quake.

I think Remake Quake is doing exactly the kind of thing that Carmack envisioned when he open-sourced damn near all of Quake: experimentation and risky creativity.

You just slammed every single mapper ever, while also championing a team of modders who's mappers have done little more than terribly redesign id maps, their programmers have copied every enhancement other modders have done for years in the field of engines, have added gameplay features that were innovative (and unexciting) years ago, and have sounds/textures/models which are all worse than the Q3 graphics they're attempting to replicate. I'm all for 'experimentation' and 'risky creativity', doesn't mean I don't get to still call it shit if it is.

Seriously, aside from a puzzle and a grappling hook [Oh noes ... 3D navigations!! OMG ... ] and a vial here and there Remake Quake is Quake to the core. Just with more imagination.

'Imagination' doesn't make something better. Zerstorer was was Quake and imaginative. Nehahra was Quake and imaginative. There have been several scores of maps which have been imaginative and still decidedly Quake (with or without any custom progs.dat) over these 15 years. Remake Quake is trying very hard to be every other game in existance while changing Quake's designs and gameplay for the worse and tacking on amatuer sounds, graphics, and effects. I suppose it may well be Quake, but it's still shit. 

> their programmers have copied every enhancement other modders have done for years in the field of engines

Sorry but that's a goddam personal insult. Have you even read my code? Do you even know what it's capable of? Quick to jump in and comment about things you haven't even a fucking clue about, aren't you?

Anyway, I'm not a mapper, I'm an engine guy, and I like writing rendering code that can handle insane amounts of detail and crazy brushwork at playable speeds. That's what I do.

I don't innovate, I react. If there is a need to handle a certain feature in code, and if the feature is reasonably sane, then I handle it; but that's driven by the requirements of the content and the people who use that content. I'm happy to do that, I get satisfaction and achievement from it.

Map-wise I judge a map by how much fun it is to play. "Fun" - remember that? No lofty sense of purity to the original here, if a map is fun then it rocks, if it's not fun then it doesn't.

I could give a list of older and more recent releases that I thought were not fun, but I've no interest in getting into a pissing contest over map quality. I know what I like and if I don't like it I can quite happily get on with the rest of my life ignoring it. I've better things to be doing with my time than expending energy on negative bullshit. It's not an affront to me that something I don't like exists in the world.

Portishead's first 2 LPs weren't great, but their third one is quite good, by the way. 

the "remake" vs reinterpret point makes some sense. I recall similarly emotional disputes over certain Doom PWAD projects.
So calling this ReMixQuake might have been a more diplomatic solution. 

I Don't Like Those Maps. I Wish People Would Stop Liking Them.

If it helps I found Insomnia rather boring. Ceremonial Circles, now that kicked ass :p 

Sorry but that's a goddam personal insult. Have you even read my code? Do you even know what it's capable of? Quick to jump in and comment about things you haven't even a fucking clue about, aren't you?

End user speaking here, so no, I've never read nor care at all about your code, just what it does for me. I'm sure you've done some great stuff on the backend, but having installed a seperate engine to play the mod when I already have other modern Quake engines, I would hope to have seen something new and innovative featurewise that actually requires a seperate engine as far as the end user is concerned. To me, it just seemed like yet another 'colored lights, high res textures, interpolation fixes, fancy effects' engine like so many others.

Map-wise I judge a map by how much fun it is to play. "Fun" - remember that? No lofty sense of purity to the original here, if a map is fun then it rocks, if it's not fun then it doesn't.

Have you seen the brushwork? Do you even know what it's capable of!?

I don't care about the maps 'purity to the original', in fact I was even more turned off they seemed to basically be remixes with new areas tacked in rather than full on reenvisionings. Still wasn't 'fun', thanks to the terrible puzzles and other such gimmicks that aren't even fun in other games, never mind shoehorning them into another game's design where they're not even wanted. 

Nothing will ever surprise me anymore.

Ontopic: I like Radiohead. 

So verion 0.1 of the project should have been awesome?

Also, since every is getting offended not by the 'Quake' in the title but by the 'Remake' what would be the difference? Remix? Redo? Change?

This seems a bit thin to be honest, putting it in the terms of other remix projects. A completely different name such as Nehahra did would have made more sense, but at the time we were just starting and RemakeQuake described exactly what we wanted to achieve.

The only name change I think we'd consider (since everything is setup now in various folder and versioning systems) is QuakeAsItShouldHaveBeenDoneFuckidAndEveryoneWhoShouldHaveAlreadyDoneThisButDidnt. 

 

Probably good thing that id didn't do it like that. Wouldn't have sold, wouldn't have spawned decades of quality games and probably would have written off the FPS genre due to public perception of it as a mess of badly intergrated gimmicks.

Also, what's a sheriff's store? And who's Baker? 

I don't know nonentity personally and thus I'm not going to defend him here, but

Non-Entity. The asswipe that carries grudges against me because I guess he lost everything in a Sherriff's sale because no one would employ him. So now he's lost 40 pound and is mad at me. Groovy!

was the absolutely fucking lowest thing I've read on this forum.

Also, the sleeping Shamblers that you seem to adore, were in Nehahra, 11 years ago, so suck it down with your comments about me being "uneducated".

As someone who has also spent time and effort into RemakeQuake, I was trying to stay more civilized than czg and Scampie (I would not call RMQ shitty by any means), but you and gb are making that exceedingly hard. 

Beaten to post. 

OK, I can see where you're coming from now. That's actually quite a mark of success that the changes and enhancements made turned out to be so unintrusive, so I need to thank you for that.

And Radiohead are pretty goddam tedious. 

If you've released it to the public it should be torn apart. Did you want to be jerked off instead? 

I tried to explain the great engine stuff mh does to Scampie but apparently I failed. 

all you did was babble about directx 

And Radiohead are pretty goddam tedious.

You can always start a RemakeRadiohead project... 

1 - No more efrags bug! (you can have an many static entities and illusionaries etc as you like now)

2 - Support for transparent textures (i.e. mesh fences etc)

3 - Runs faster

4 - Corrects the widescreen aspect-ratio problem (no more FOV wierdness)

And there are a bunch of optimisations and stuff I know nothing about. But my first point (the efrags fix) is huge! It means that you can put as much quake-goodness detailing in your maps as you like now.

The next feature I wish for is to raize the vertex limit to unlimited.

Then I could make a Quake city. 

> The next feature I wish for is to raize the vertex limit to unlimited.

That's a BSP format limit, unfortunately. Otherwise I would have removed it ages ago.

> You can always start a RemakeRadiohead project...

How about a "put their fucking heads on pikes" project? 

No more efrags bug! 

that tronyn-czg exchange was surreal. 

For what it's worth I got a chuckle out of the new Quaddicted title bar text. 

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly is it about czg07 that you don't like? Were you happy with it when you released it?

From my view, they were quite the revolutionary works, with complicated layouts that I still don't believe have ever been matched (Well, for the first two maps anyway). It showcased exactly what was possible with curves in Quake, something that up until that point really hadn't been tried. Hell, during my infrequent forays into mapping, I still use you curves tutorial.

Though I don't map (much) anymore, in my most recent of vocations, even though my early work admittedly sucked, how else is one supposed to get better than by producing sub-par things to being? 

They're some of my favourite maps in any game. The lift at the end is a bit anticlimactic, but you can't have it all.

The scale was bumped and though it was spacious it didn't feel empty.

It was the first time I saw the horde concept in Q1 as well, even though it was a handful of hknights and fiends, as opposed to a genuine horde. 

Yes, maybe I did an entirely uncool post. I'm human and Nonentity has done a ton of uncool posts directed towards me that were not fair whatsoever. Do I have some resentment that surfaces on a bad day at a bad time with a bit of alcohol? Yes I do.

Am I a better person for doing so? No. I clearly am not.

But I'm human like the rest of you. I fuck up. I make mistakes. I try to be the "better man", and sometimes I will fail at this.

And I accept this human fallacy. Perfect is boring.

Was it low? Yes it was. It was completely low. Should I have done it? On a good day, for sure not. But like all of you, I'm just a mortal ... full of imperfection, fallacy and hell --- I've participated in this thread long after I "exited the thread".

I'll take the heat for being a jerk. Sometimes I am a jerk. Sometimes I rise above.

And as far as CZG is concerned, do I think he could do better and rise above, absolutely.

You can hate me for being flawed, but I have never claimed to be perfect. I am so very far from perfect, but yet I'll accept all the criticism I've earned when I've acted like an ape.

But my goal is to rise above that ultimately. Is this your goal as well? Do you have what it takes to suppress your inner caveman and be civil? Curious minds want to know. 

Let me tell you from personal experience ... and although you haven't read this, it is either buried in the bowels of QuakeOne.com or an email ... sounds are the most sensitive of all things.

I have posted again and again how the sounds in Quake make it work of art and how playing with those are the most dangerous of all things.

Now, you can go off about how particularly the sounds in Remake Quake version are bad --- an you will have a chorus that agrees with you including me --- and yet at the same time, even with sounds that do not jive these guys are imaginating up and testing modifications to the tools and the engine. I give credit to a developer set looking to expand map compile tool capability and engine capability knowing that eventually any sound issues will be fixed later.

Are you happy now?