Tim Willits On Multiplayer Level Design
#13986 posted by
Lunaran on 2008/04/17 03:10:49
From the University of Texas Master Class interviews by Warren Spector:
WS: Is there a difference, as a designer, when you sit down to make a multiplayer map and single player map, are they different? How are they different?
TW: In multiplayer maps, there's these kind of themes. And if you were to do one of these things, your map will be successful. There's the arena theme, which is basically you have this central area that everything feeds into. Then you have a location theme, you know, made famous by, you know, the, uh, Quake ... deathmatch level 3 I think. Where you have like, a generator room, and you have like a water room, so you have like these identifiable locations. Then you have like a "themed" deathmatch map, like uh. In Quake3, like our space maps, with the bounce pads and the acceleration pads and stuff. Those, really, three things, three basic concepts of multiplayer maps, makes a multiplayer map.
There's actually a formula, regardless of what game you're making, and what weapons you have, if you make a map in a certain way, it will always be fun. You know, and that is, uh. Like the Edge, in Quake2, which originally was inspired by a map called Ledges from Doom, is the ... perfect kind of basic framework for a multiplayer map. Where you have this nice central, centralized area, you know, round or square doesn't matter, and you have a few multi -levels where you have some access points and you have some exits and things, and you keep players all focused on this middle area. Then you need to, you know, put a few sound cues, like a ladder or a bounce pad to kind of trigger the players for where other players are, but if you make a map just like that, it will always be fun. It's a bold thing to say, but I have never seen a map like that - made correctly! - in any game that wasn't fun. It really is the perfect ... and I've been doing this a looong time. It's the perfect construction of a multiplayer map.
You know, with, saying that, location based maps are always fun, where you can be like, 'Ohh, I'm in the generator room,' or, 'Ohh I'm in the pump room.' You know, and you can set up kind of fun, gameplay mechanisms with that. And then of course theme maps ... theme maps are always a gamble. You know, like, a big bounce pad and you're always bouncing around, or ... lots of teleporters, or you know, no grav or lots of water. Those can be fun ... most people don't like them, most people will wind up playing the arena style. But if you make a map like that ... I guarantee you.
Once you graduate past basic nub, "Made Correctly" is where 99% of the thinking happens. I'm really kind of surprised that a guy in his position who's had this much time to build maps and test them and consider them, talking about level design for a gametype that's all about player movement, collection of items, and combat, gives tips that have little or nothing to do with any of those things.
The Quoted Section:
#13987 posted by
- on 2008/04/17 03:56:36
Is where I stopped listening to the talk. Even before that I was threatening Lunaran with unspeakable pain for telling me to watch it.
Oh, And A Quote Lun Emailed Me From The Same Talk...
#13988 posted by
- on 2008/04/17 03:58:20
"as soon as an engine becomes unliscensable, if it's not possible for us to generate revenue for it, John carmack open sources it, or OpenGL's it, or whatever it is."
Gotta Admit The "formula" He Refers To
#13989 posted by
RickyT33 on 2008/04/17 04:07:36
is clearly present in UT3
I was playing FEAR Combat earlier, and there are no jump pads, the player cant move as fast and there's no sounds to tell you where the players are except for that of gunfire, or the rumble of exploisions. I like the way that you might see plaster come off the OTHER SIDE of a wall if something is going on behind it.
It does stick kinda to the "two memorable areas" part, but I also felt pretty disorientated for quite a lot of it. I liked it, it was very much to do with accuracy with the first shot, and stalking. Different but still fun!
University Of Texas Master Class Interviews By Warren Spector
#13990 posted by
gone on 2008/04/17 04:56:04
http://www.gameupdates.org/details.php?id=2265
so far I only watched Spectors` and its ~50% of water and common place but also some nice stuff and I highly recommend it to anyone into gamedesign (I suggest to FFW to ~30minutes from the start)
Tim... is he a bad speaker? If you played q2 atleast till patch 3.20 you will agree that q2dm1 is an excellent level with great balance and depth. Maybe it was the result of chance and playtesting, not just Willit's lvl design skill? And then there is q3dm6. His q1 levels are also some of the best.
#13992 posted by
gone on 2008/04/17 09:10:41
watching Willits right now - its a comedy
Told You So
#13993 posted by
Spirit on 2008/04/17 09:17:03
I think that bit about dm design Willits talks about is more for the casual players (the ones the bring the money).
Well
#13994 posted by
bambuz on 2008/04/17 16:41:13
I think the points about differently themed places are good in a way, but they are certainly not the main points in a dm map.
The gameplay has to rock too.
Also, I don't like pure atrium stuff. There is a world out there of huge possibilities and many make q3 atrium map clones since they think that is what DM is about - even when their sp maps show very varied play geometry (I don't mean decorations).
#13996 posted by
gone on 2008/04/17 17:44:19
oh my bad then. did you watch till the end? there are many funny/silly bits
Exclusive Leaked Excerpt From The Internal Doom 3 Single Player GDD
#13997 posted by
Kinn on 2008/04/17 21:07:36
"...and there gon be like rooms because rooms are always real funs in these uhh shootin' games! and the shape of the rooms don matter so we'll make em all square cos that's real easy right? (TODO: check with John whether square rooms are easier to make than round rooms) uh and its like real dark cos these deamons don't like bright lights and stuff where you can see the funs - but you know the fun's there becuase you can feels your way round the uh corridors like a mole in a tunnel because everyone likes being a mole right? But this time you're a mole in space!"
- TW
AguirRe
#13998 posted by
Spirit on 2008/04/17 21:32:17
I replied to your mail yesterday (actually replied to the earlier one too). Maybe a google gnome is harvesting them? :)
My answer basically was:
No, I did not touch any of the files.
And:
pak0.pak would be Seal of Nehahra
Alan
#13999 posted by
HeadThump on 2008/04/17 23:01:08
1. Steal Spirit's e-mail's to AquiRe.
2. . . . .
3. Profit!
Weird
#14000 posted by
HeadThump on 2008/04/17 23:02:36
that is the second time I have noticed the tag line auto-filling with my name.
Happens when I have a certain HTML/CSS editor running in the background.
Spirit
#14002 posted by
aguirRe on 2008/04/17 23:47:32
I got your 2nd response (thanks) and I've sent a reply.
Now,
#14003 posted by
HeadThump on 2008/04/18 02:20:53
I'm going to be tossing and turning all night wondering, 'that's cool, Alan', and, blank stare icon, together, what could that possibly mean?
ARQuake
#14005 posted by LTH on 2008/04/18 16:35:21
Augmented Reality Quake:
http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/arquake/
No need to turn your local high school / shopping mall into a Quake map, now - just put on your goggles!
Hi Chaps!
#14006 posted by DaMaul on 2008/04/18 22:49:19
This is the kind of thing I've been getting up to since I stopped making Q1SP maps:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9387zmssuE
#14007 posted by
Trinca on 2008/04/18 23:29:19
you start seeing gay music?
Haha
#14009 posted by
starbuck on 2008/04/19 01:32:16
very professionally done, good times.