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Left 4 Dead 2
Most forums threads on this are pointless flame shit.

Not that I'm not expecting that here, but it'd be nice to hear some opinions anyway.

I'm enjoying the demo quite a bit - despite the shortness. The variety in just about everything is refreshing, as is killing a witch with a guitar to the back of the head.

My general impressions:

Tier 1 weapons are pretty lame, but they always were. At least now they feel more unique and suited to particular purposes.

Tier 2 weapons are great, without exception. The Spas auto shot is a laugh, even though it doesn't feel as powerful as the L4D1 version.

The changes to throwable weapons are pretty good overall - the pipebomb having a shorter range and the bilebomb outperforming it in the 'horde summoner' category being a decent modification.

Melee is dangerously fun - brawling typically gets you shot up by your team-mates. Kind of dissapointing that it doesn't seem possible to time a 'perfect strike' ie. 'Dead Stop' on a Charger. The big problem with the melee is the camera. Despite the HUD warning it's very easy (thanks to the blood all over the screen) to not know where your attacker is. It should be third person cam I feel.

The Jockey is great, his supposed ability to leap from survivor to survivor will cause havoc in versus.

The Spitter seems more at home in the enclosed areas of L4D1, but its only a map and a half in the demo, so we'll see. She also has the potential to be very nasty in Versus.

The wandering witch is ok I spose. Really I'd have liked to see a completely new non-playable, whilst keeping the original witch. Will be interesting to see if day/night affects how the witches behave.

The Charger is great - I wouldn't change anything, except maybe how light the ragdoll seems when he's killed. He often floats towards the team when killed in mid charge.

The various reskins to the original SI are businesslike. It'd be nice to see some proper reskins as well though, not just modifications /re-imaginings of the original meshes. Might cause some confusion but I doubt it - they each move in a very specific way.

The new health systems are generally welcome, although defib seems a bit pointless. The Adrenaline is much more tactical than the pills and very useful for the new style crescendo event.

AI Director2 seems pretty functional, although the demo maps don't seem to show it's ability to mix stuff up so much, although we have ended up wandering around in circles (in a good/terrifying way) a couple of times.

[Edited cos most people are playing the full now]
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Zwiffle

No no, the point is that this is what they were wearing when the zombies showed up. They didn't choose to dress like that. 
Heh 
Really I think people read too much into this sort of stuff, I mean WOAH, Rochelle wears earrings? HOLY FUCK GUYS EARRINGS.

So pretend you are a woman for a minute, your walking down the street and suddenly 100 zombies run out at you, the 1st thing you are going to do is take off your earrings because they are not suitable for a zombie apocalypse?

It seems that people complain whenever characters in games resemble any sort of sterotype, so lets make all game characters have green skin and 2 heads and come from the planet zog? These people are human and come from Earth, so yeh they are going to resemble SOME SORT of sterotype.

/rant :P 
Hmm 
Yeh, that's fair enough Willem, but I think his point was that you'd at least take off the tie... 
A Better Point Being... 
Every second you're dicking around undoing a tie is more time that a zombie is trying to chew into your skull because you're not shooting the fucking thing.

Which is why I wear zombie-proof clothing in day to day life, just in case... 
Hmm 
And all that time sitting in safe rooms reloading/bandaging/changing weapons/etc they don't have time to take off the tie?

(I think we maybe play games too much, there's a certain inability to distinguish fact and fiction here... ;) 
Hello Kitty Pyjamas 
In a zombie Apocalyse - that's got to be a replacement skin. 
 
negke/Willem, you completely missed my point. I understood where you were coming from in the first place, that's there normal everyday clothing, but my point was this: How hard is it to take off a tie, take out your earrings, or button up your overalls in a safe room? How long will that take? 5 seconds? Nonentity got it right away...

DaZ - yeah, I just kind of said it initially as a joke but I guess people took it to be a real argument :) But hey, if it makes some discussion why not talk about it. 
 
"that's *not *their normal, everyday clothing..." I just woke up cut me some slack. 
 
I can't believe we're even talking about this to be honest. :) They're probably distracted with the whole, "there's 10,000 zombies trying to kill us" situation. Cheers! 
Zwiffle 
You're right that everybody probably would have take it off. But the point that, for example, Louis still wears his tie is to reinforce his role as a business man. This way it's more easily recognizable and supports the intented impression of 'four random characters from different ends of society' teaming up in an extreme sitation (people who don't have much in common and wouldn't have bothered with each other if it wasn't for the zombie killing thing). 
 
Well to steer this into a different direction, since everyone has made their points (and only mine were valid!) it would have been cool if Louis had a red pen in his shirt pocket that leaked, and someone telling him after a bloody fight that he has red on him.

Or maybe they did that, and I never noticed. 
Well If You're Gonna Die 
In a zombie apocalypse, you might as well do it in style :P 
Hmm 
Yeh, I get why they styled the characters like they did negke, and tbh I think it works well. Without the tie louis wouldn't be nearly as well stylised.

I just think some of us may have read this book one too many times (note, also shave your hair ;) 
 
I've never read the Zombie Survival Guide but I want to. What I was referring to was just common sense. Hence, my use of the term, common sense.

I would like it if they had Coach wear riot gear like the zombies. He does say something to the effect of "Those zombies are wearin' armor! I WANT ARMOR!"

Coach is a smart man. 
Hmm 
Read it.

Now.

Also World War Z (which is arguably a better tale, altho less practically useful...) 
 
Yeah I read World War Z and still want to read Zombie Survival Guide, and I actually recommended WWZ to bler, and then he forgot I recommended it to him and he recommended it to me, kinda silly.

Also, I wish I could talk about WWZ further beyond the book, but I can't. But I want to. 
LOL. 
Yes. Don't read the Morningstar Virus thingy book though (different author), it's gash. 
 
You could make the argument that as clothes are central to our constructed self-identity. Monks, soldiers, and prison inmates wear uniforms to weaken the power of their past/civilian identity. In a zombie apocalypse you would probably want to keep your clothes as way to maintain a connection to the past life and identity, rather than give yourself up fully to a new life as a savage and a survivor. 
 
You might want to, but that would seem to me to be hardcore denial. I don't see how that could help you survive a zombie apocalypse.

Now personally, I was never one for style, I just kind of wear video game clothes and whatever makes me feel comfortable and warm. I could imagine a zombie apocalypse doing more psychological harm to someone like Pope, who seems to thrive on trendy merchandise.

I just see going more utilitarian in a life-or-death scenario as the better, more logical option, instead of something (to paraphrase metlslime's post in an asshole-ish way) similar to "Ooh this isn't happening this isn't happening this isn't happening I'm going to listen to some Depeche Mode" ...

Wait a minute, maybe that explains everything about Rochelle. She's just in major denial. 
Well 
I always thought it'd make sense for Louis to have his tie tied around his arm. He'd want to look after it but in a pocket it'd get lost. All the running around would mean he'd at least loosen it. 
 
"You might want to, but that would seem to me to be hardcore denial. I don't see how that could help you survive a zombie apocalypse."

Mmm, there is an argument to be made there along the lines of the mental game is as important as anything else. Holding onto your humanity in a world of undead monsters would mean a lot in terms of motivation and keeping yourself going. 
 
Yeah, I don't think taking out some earrings or taking off your tie counts as losing your humanity. 
 
Never having been in a zombie apocalypse, I can't say for sure. 
What 
I thought you worked in a games studio? 
Posts 132 Onwards. 
Brilliant, good discussion guys :) 
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