I think the doom trailers are more promising than meh, but then I read shit like this:

"�The push-forward style of our combat rewards players for being aggressive and not backing down from a challenge,� Sokal adds. �If you are low on health, charge into the maw and blow a demon in half to get a nice chunk of your health back. Low on ammo? Pull out the Chainsaw and cut a demon apart to get a huge ammo refill. For me, these moments are some of the most satisfying in the game.�"

(end quote=

ie basically let's give the main character health and ammo regeneration by attacking enemy. This is shoddy design in my opinion that removes skill and fun completely out of the equation. It's just a "press a button" to win, instead of waiting for a few seconds for your health to regenrate you just attack enemies to have health and ammo refill.

Having the option to remove this crap from the game changes nothing because it is obvious the whole item economy was designed behind this. First mod we'll need is a rebalance of the game with items around the level and no ammo and health regeneration 

That depends a lot on how balanced the implementation was.

Enemies already dropped ammo, but in low amounts. If the soldiers dropped packs of 50 bullets, that would be completely stupid and it would have ruined classic Doom in the same way you're describing.

Ideally, enemies shouldn't drop more ammo than what's needed to kill them, I guess. That's probably why the ogres are so well balanced in Quake � grunts are far easier, because you can waste 3 shells, spend another 2 and get all 5 back when they die.

In the case of health, a fair compromise may be for them to not drop more health than a single weak attack of them can take. If classic Doom had a monster that dropped one of those 2-points blue potion when it died, that wouldn't be unfair. Sure, you'd get a lot of health when you killed a cyberdemon, but if the cyberdemon had hit you at least twice, you would've still lost a lot. 

one thing is having an enemy drop a modest amount of the ammo it is using, one thing is- I quote:

"�If you are low on health, charge into the maw and blow a demon in half to get a nice chunk of your health back. Low on ammo? Pull out the Chainsaw and cut a demon apart to get a huge ammo refill. "

nice chunk of health and huge ammo refill for attacking an enemy. This seems to me like a mechanic on the same level of health regeneration + ammo regeneration. Instead of waiting a few seconds behind cover to get your health back you can simply rush towards your enemy to get health and ammo back.

I'm really pessimistic about the possibility of implementing this without making the gameplay completely trivial. I hope this shit is not present in the ultra violence difficulty level. 

so one mod I would expect is just to take the standard levels and place items around (with a difficulty modifier) and completely remove these shitty (at least they sound shitty) health and ammo regeneration mechanics. Take downs have to stay, but remove the pretty stupid pinata effect and invincibility frames

on art style: I think the game looks promising but the zergesque design is offputting, the worst offender seems to be the cyberdemon 

And since you can't mod anything outside of what you can do in SnapMap.... 

I have to wonder why folks are so hell bent on not accepting any new gameplay mechanic even before trying it out... so much for trying new things. This game is doom by name only. So either just give it a pass and go play something else so buy it and give this new game a go. As for a mod that has items in the level all of a sudden... that's not very realistic because you would have to either hack the maps or at least go in and redo the item placement for each level. So I would not expect that to be very feasible. 

So the game would be better with regenerating health?

You wouldn't understand game design if it bit you. 

Yeah people losing their jimmies over a game mechanic based on cynical assumptions of how it's gonna play out is just typical internet hipster sad-sackery. I have played dozens of games in my time where monsters drop extra goodies if you kill them in a certain way and on all occasions I remembering it being a fun mechanic. 

Citation needed. 

...has always worked for me, not that it gets implemented much. There was a couple of action games that did it a few years ago and it was good fun and an encouraging mechanic. Painkiller also did it with the souls for demon mode. Generally rewarding killing with, errr, stuff seems okay to me. 

It wouldn't take a lot of work for it to make sense. In Blood you gunned down enemies and they had a chance of dropping "life force" which is basically a heart that restored health...

I think the problem that most gamers have is that instead of enemies dropping items with context they drop windows icons. 

people forget that hl2 did this? if you were low on health, you had a good chance of a soldier dropping those small health kits. if you were low on ammo, you were more likely to get bullets. and this mechanic was present in the crates as well. some crate items were hard coded, but others were generated at runtime based on player stats.

descent 1/2 also did this with the energy and shield powerups being more likely depending on which one you needed more. this is not a new mechanic by any means... 

But I'm skeptical it will improve gameplay. I feel that eliminating a threat AND gaining a considerable amount of health may be too big of a payoff and may cheapen the experience.

I think Blood is different in that the enemies are particularity challenging and the chance of dropping health is fairly low.

Also, item pickups add a layer of strategy. You can create a risk/reward scenario with item placement. Having health drops just seems kinda one dimensional.

I dunno. I'm eager to play the game, just wish it would release already! 

I think the problem that most gamers have is that instead of enemies dropping items with context they drop windows icons.

I think the problem that most gamers have is that it's diiiiiifffffferrrreennnnntttttttt. 

Citation needed.

Oh come on, you should know that tons of hack 'n' slash games do it (God of War anyone?) and there are all manner of RPGs that have skills and spells you can invoke to turn an enemy kill into a bar refill.

mh is right - people are losing their shit over this bascially because it's different and I'm amazed no-one has brought the idea that there could be a real risk/reward element to this, because charging right up to a mob of enemies to melee them in the face often puts you in a real shitty position depending on what the hell else is going on around you. 

 

it's all about the implementation.

But yeah maybe ID needs to keep a clamp on the marketing BS about it being an innovative feature. 

 

"people are losing their shit over this bascially because it's different"
Different to...Doom1&2 ?
I don't see anyone complaining about that.
I do see and have made complaint of the mechanic being a thinly disguised regenerating health / health on demand mechanic.
If only it were different to that trite shit mechanic...

#1305 "no-one has brought the idea that there could be a real risk/reward element to this..."

Nope, no chance of byuing that idea indeed : the player moves super flying ninja skateboard fast and you are invuln during the executions, so it is basically pick your pinata wherever in sight, dash faster than anything else around, and feast.

And what betrays the intent behind this mechanic for me is another feature in the same vein we of making the gameplay trite and safe for today's bratty players : the clear room panic button aka the Big Floppydick Gun. 

The brill part of the original BFG is it is expensive to fire and there is a very good chance that you misuse it and basically blast 2/3rds of your Plasma ammo taking out one miserable Imp if anaything at all.

But use it well, heh, shall we say with (ohmygodcanitbeyesitcan) skill and its a good payoff.

Great power but some skill demanded to wield it correctly.

I dont think Doom4 is following this idea.
It sure looks like a fun ride but these things definitely are making it look more like a fun ride than a fun challenge.

As so many games now, basically little more than interactive action rides. Really Disney amusement park level stuff.
...and this whole mass of todays gamers who cant get enough of this kind of shit...blergh.

I think this is what is irking people here. The pretense of being given a real Doom but instead being served up some more of this fun on rails trite shit. 

Looks like we wont be able to mod it out but at the very least I guess we can unbind the keys for BFG and executions. 

 

...or just don't press the keys while playing the game. Seriously. You're over-dramatizing this. 

Invalid, IMO. If the game design is based around the user pressing those keys, then not pressing them isn't really an option. Unless you want some sort of iron man challenge... 

I've seen countless kids that presses nothing but the quick punch and quick kick in Street Fighter games. The same kind of kids that never learns that they can block while crouching.