 Hrm
#12843 posted by megaman on 2007/10/14 21:03:18
i wonder if you couldn't extract the 3d from two slighltly shifted photographs (like eyes)
 Bambuz
#12844 posted by Lunaran on 2007/10/15 02:55:47
what are we, rich?
 Lun
#12845 posted by bambuz on 2007/10/15 13:24:37
since it costs so much to make them by hand (artist salaries), I'd imagine some equipment that speeds up the creation by many times would quickly pay itself back.
But maybe the textures are already bought from third companies and this is their money making secret.
 Bambuz
#12846 posted by bal on 2007/10/15 13:59:00
The use would be limited, as most of the time you just don't have what you want a texture of available as a real object.
 Interesting Bal
#12847 posted by bambuz on 2007/10/15 14:55:00
Maybe that's the case. Or maybe it depends on the genre then. I remember the guys at Remedy making Max Payne going to New York and taking a huge amount of photographs of everything and a lot of that ended up in the game. (The dev showed us from where many textures had come from.)
On the other hand if you're doing some alien stuff maybe then original material is of limited use... But I even remember Jurassic Park guys using a laser 3d scanner so they could use elephant skin for the big dinosaur renders...
Everybody remembers that camera with four flash bulbs in the corners, which fire sequentially and thus a lot of depth information from the image can be gotten automatically and quite easily. Was some project, maybe at MIT?
 Ah
#12848 posted by bambuz on 2007/10/15 15:00:56
 Hmm
#12849 posted by bambuz on 2007/10/15 15:03:21
now that I think more of it, it might not be so good for normalmaps, since it's more for discontinuity detection, but techniques might be tunable...
 Bamb
#12850 posted by Lunaran on 2007/10/15 15:30:49
Lasers cost a lot more than humans, and they don't do 100% of the job, so you still need artists to 'clean up' the maps and make them tileable and they still have to match the diffuse maps and bla bla ...
Motion capture saves exactly 0 animator time. It works the same way.
 Banbuz
#12851 posted by ijed on 2007/10/15 16:33:35
Heheh, look at any mud texture in almost any game. Go to Google images, type mud and there you've got the base of the texture.
Lunaran is right - an artist is always needed to modify whatever image to make it actually usable. Its the same with outsourcing, the stuff always needs a few weeks of someones time because management won't extend the contract to have it done properly.
Remedy sending some of thier devteam to take photos around New York sounds like a tax loss situation - they spunk some cash on something effectively useless to drop thier tax rating. Ok, maybe not in that case, but I gauruntee that Remedy itself didn't pay.
 Bambuz
#12852 posted by ijed on 2007/10/15 16:34:05
Heheh, look at any mud texture in almost any game. Go to Google images, type mud and there you've got the base of the texture.
Lunaran is right - an artist is always needed to modify whatever image to make it actually usable. Its the same with outsourcing, the stuff always needs a few weeks of someones time because management won't extend the contract to have it done properly.
Remedy sending some of thier devteam to take photos around New York sounds like a tax loss situation - they spunk some cash on something effectively useless to drop thier tax rating. Ok, maybe not in that case, but I gauruntee that Remedy itself didn't pay.
 Shit.
#12853 posted by ijed on 2007/10/15 16:35:15
 How Did You Managed The Typo's In Bambuz ^^^?
#12854 posted by RickyT33 on 2007/10/15 16:50:17
 But Surely
#12855 posted by bambuz on 2007/10/15 17:04:23
cleaning up can take a lot less time than creating from the raw photo. If the team knows what to look and has trained in the local environment before, it could be quite effective in asset "stealing" I imagine.
I also imagine it's quite time consuming in creating some normalmaps by hand, people model stuff in max and create it from that then etc...
He specifically showed some floor texture for example: the photo showing the hotel corridor, then the face-on photo of the tiles, then the texture in the texture browser and finally the texture in-game (I must say that considerable vividity (?) loss in colors was observable along the process). Of course it was an old game and the world hadn't even heard of normal maps back then.
I don't know of funding, and there might have been other reasons to go there too, like to get some feel for what the city is like and get inspiration and even possibly just for fun.
Of motion capture, I assume there are still reasons for using it, like getting more realistic animations in some sense. Or maybe it's just a retarded trick used by EA for marketing reasons, to unfairly tread on small cute studios!
 I Meant
#12856 posted by bambuz on 2007/10/15 17:06:22
cleaning up a normal map gotten by some hardware method would take less time than making one with an nvidia hackjob approximating tool from a picture and then tweaking and editing that ad infinitum to reach the equivalent quality... Now, of course if you're willing to do with less quality or realism, then...
 When You Are Drawing Art Assets
#12857 posted by HeadThump on 2007/10/15 17:47:49
the easy part is getting the basic shape of the objects down on paper (or screen :))and the more difficult part is getting the material surface of those shapes to appear realistic.
If you are using a laser to render a map of a surface of a real object, most of the work it is doing is the same thing that an artist would do in a few minutes. The subsurface levels a laser could fine tune are less important than the fidelity of the entire shape.
Also, the majority of what you would want a normal map to capture is in the shape that you created whereas the material surface you add to it creates visual noise and this produces a less precise height map.
http://www.katsbits.com/htm/tutorials/creating_bumpmaps_from_images.htm
 So:
#12858 posted by RickyT33 on 2007/10/15 17:59:44
If youre doing a texture which is organic then you might as well get a computer to do it for you, but if you are doing a texture which is in-organic i.e. has lots of artificial-looking right angles and would have a much more precise 3D map, then you might as well do it yourself, because although it might take longer to do it manually, the end result will be better.
Or am a chipping into something I only half understand?!?!
 Where Is Our
#12859 posted by Zwiffle on 2007/10/15 18:56:42
Companion Cube graphic?
 Here You Go
#12860 posted by HeadThump on 2007/10/15 19:06:28
 19 Updated/new Descriptions
#12861 posted by Spirit on 2007/10/15 21:14:07
at http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=42
Thanks for the submissions!
 Well, Okay
#12862 posted by Lunaran on 2007/10/15 21:46:23
if you guys insist.
field-portable 3D laser scanners are still pretty goddamned expensive for something approaching the resolution you'd need.
 I Insist It Is An Excercise In Futility
#12863 posted by HeadThump on 2007/10/15 22:07:24
it reminds me of the advice Dustin Hoffman got when he was using sleep deprivation and exhaustion to get a grip on his role in Marathon Man,
"Why don't you just act."
No lasers, learn to draw.
 Definitely
#12864 posted by HeadThump on 2007/10/15 22:18:36
No lasers, learn to draw.
not aimed at Lunaran, and I don't assume Bambuz can or cannot draw either. Just saying it would be far cheaper to train a half dozen people to draw assets then it would to buy a laser.
#12865 posted by gibbie on 2007/10/15 22:28:15
tx for the links bamb, cool stuff
 But...
#12866 posted by metlslime on 2007/10/15 22:39:55
lasers can operate in the cold vacuum of space, and artists cannot.
 But Can A Laser
#12867 posted by HeadThump on 2007/10/15 22:49:05
know what it is to feel love?
[cue nuclear annihilation]
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