16/01/2005 so I dunno why that would be wrong? 

Nevermind all this then! A genuine misunderstanding! 

the reason, as we both know, is that you implied that I implied that the last time you released a map was 10 years ago, when my 79 never implied that, your 86 implied (falsely) that 79 did imply that, my 88 proved your 79 absolutely wrong, your 90 avoided the question in response, and your 92 brought up my 88 again regarding the claim on 79, as if 88 was not a literally correct condemnation of the claims made in 79.

Anyway, we understand each other. You're "the king of 10-year old curvy maps and annoying posts" as per my original claim. 

My whole complaint-rant regarding the old "used to be cool" long-retired mapper thing is punctuated by you.

I hate has-been mappers reaching from the grave to criticize. It's not cool. Not cool at all. And frankly, it has been a long, long, long time since you mattered.

It isn't that your elder-world opinion doesn't matter, but if you are just gonna be a dick, go fucking retire and don't come back. 

In #83 (Which you omit in #105 and my #86 was in response to) you say some kind of inside joke by "established" mappers from 10 years ago which implies I hadn't done anything since then.

It is true in my #90 I didn't really read your #88 properly and answered wrong.

In #92 I read your anyway what you last said in #88 as referring to my #82 which was also wrong. 

 

it will be OBVIOUS if my post 105 is NOT a documentation of your assholeness but instead merely a paranoid assemblage of your innocent misinterpretations - if you don't act like the asshole post 105 portrays you as in the future. We'll see.

But if you just want to come back to a place you used to contribute real content to, to troll around, like please man why, what right do you have. I prize this place as a creative honest place for discussion, and 105 is the documentation of either a fool or a malicious ass - fucking with what I want to be an honest place. 

I should admit that my 105 can be read as purely my paranoia, and also that your 107 points out real issues with my 105. But the main point of my 109 - that 105 will be NOTHING AT ALL if you can just act like a nice fucking guy! - stands. 

I can't act like a nice guy because whatever I say will be interpreted as some sort double-triple-ironic metacommentary about god knows what and and subtle subterfuge and social engineering and whatnot.

I've got my new RAM sorted now, so now I'm back to not posting here. It has been interesting, thanks! 

it's not the thunder of Zeus striking randomly.
No one interprets anything I say as "some sort double-triple-ironic metacommentary about god knows what" - don't deny that my (however paranoid) interpretation of your posts had some kind of basis. Seriously, when ANYONE ELSE posts ANYTHING, this sort of interpretation isn't possible, even for me.

Dude, stick around. Just don't post like an ass, or if you do, expect me to bitch. 

the matter is such silly threads and people behind them make us want to troll them to death, i support czg totally here. 

And I don't think any of the two of us have been assholes about it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgzeqwhNTDk

for a mapping forum that corner is never the corner I think it is 

only in usa 

Re: 114
I'm not trying to be an ass. I'm not even against trolling (or clever commentary that isn't even trolling). I don't want to come across as an asshole here, because I'm not trying to be one. Anyway my POV is 112 (though my FOV remains 90). 

and I have to put up with that shit so much as a Canadian being right next to the US
it was Radiohead's No Surprises - which I think is an awesome song that most people here would already know and like - but citing it was the point that I felt like, even though I like you personally a good deal more than CZG, it was no surprise that you'd support him as the old vanguard would clearly stick together. Awesome song though, all the more awesome given that Radiohead has become lame ass hipsters imo. 

that one is a nice song indeed. and i agree with you on radiohead being popasses nowadays ;) 

Um ... no ..

List of the mean-spirited participants of this thread:

1. CZG ... the awesome "has-been" mapper of days gone by. Neato.

2. Onetruepurple. Who is so uneducated as to not know what "stock id1 Quake" means. Neat.

3. Non-Entity. The asswipe that carries grudges against me because I guess he lost everything in a Sherriff's sale because no one would employ him. So now he's lost 40 pound and is mad at me. Groovy!

4. Scampie. The noble guy who didn't really know what the thread was about but posted "just because". What a guy! Love him.

CZG: I can't "fuck off" or "go away" because I am actively making and developing things for Quake. Sure I'm an ass at times, occasionally even rude, but at the same time I have actual technical contributions to engine code, map building tools and even ... maps!

I won't be going anywhere. If it helps, you can think of me as a pimple on the ass of Quake.

I myself prefer to think of myself personally in other ways, but whatever floats your boat ... 

Baker I love you, and I am happy to pass the torch of (apparently) "top provocative ass in this thread."

Vondur nice to agree, I hope you don't think I'm being unreasonable. I always thought Thom Yorke made a great angsty nerd, hell I love Radiohead from the start until Amnesiac-ish period, but as soon as Yorke put on the hat he wears in "Lotus Flower," I realized that the internet had destroyed the very idea of nerdiness. Jesus. Now nerds are hipsters. Pity the next generation's god damn music. 

Even now. But Thom Yorke always looks like he's been in a crack den for 3 days and needs a wash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8M-Moo4imQ 

I beta tested a wip map by czg and it is a beautiful piece of art. just so you know and so you can stop saying that he is a man of the past. Also, see rubicon2?

If you were interested you could get great feedback and wisdom from those "old farts". I don't see time invalidating game design concepts.

"you have no right for an opinion because I don't see you doing it yourself" is idiotic.


Radiohead is some retarded emo whine crap that is only topped by portishead. 

do I ever hate Portishead

Spirit, no one said anything like "old mappers can't have opinions," "old or non-active mappers have nothing to teach us" or "those who don't map can't have opinions on mapping." The whole thing was just an issue of the tone of posts, and an issue of automatically putting up with that tone, which I wanted to challenge. Hell I still think Steve Rescoe was an amazing designer and if he showed up today I'd be super interested in whatever he had to say. But hell, if - say - Stephen Hawking posted posts in a tone I dislike, I'd bitch about that tone. That's all. 

Also pretty sure I didn't post "anus" anywhere? You did, just then - it was a t4rp.

Don't try to shift the topic in such a ridiculous way. Either pay attention or don't read selectively. Or not, whatever.

I know there's no official format on func for 'a new review is up at Quaddicted' but something along those lines is typically mentioned somewhere on the board, and I'm glad it is so I can go over and read it.

Or we can just blather on about random crap and trick CZG into talking about anus until his new PC is set up. 

Some people criticize Remake Quake as not being "Quake" enough and cry about it.

It is titled 'Remake' Quake. I was expecting something that enhanced the simple and effective gameplay of Quake that I enjoy (otherwise, I wouldn't give a fuck about a mod of an outdated game) and updated it into modern visuals. Instead I got a mod which is barely more than a conglomeration of the terrible crap that modders were making 10+ years ago with no interesting modern innovation, along with amatuerish sounds, textures, lighting, map design, and models.

My personal opinion is that aside from Negke --- who I believe is an especially unique enigma unmatched in his unconventional and perfectionist style --- that the 1,376 id1 maps at Quaddicted adequately cover everything of substance that is ever gonna be done with id1 Quake.

I think Remake Quake is doing exactly the kind of thing that Carmack envisioned when he open-sourced damn near all of Quake: experimentation and risky creativity.

You just slammed every single mapper ever, while also championing a team of modders who's mappers have done little more than terribly redesign id maps, their programmers have copied every enhancement other modders have done for years in the field of engines, have added gameplay features that were innovative (and unexciting) years ago, and have sounds/textures/models which are all worse than the Q3 graphics they're attempting to replicate. I'm all for 'experimentation' and 'risky creativity', doesn't mean I don't get to still call it shit if it is.

Seriously, aside from a puzzle and a grappling hook [Oh noes ... 3D navigations!! OMG ... ] and a vial here and there Remake Quake is Quake to the core. Just with more imagination.

'Imagination' doesn't make something better. Zerstorer was was Quake and imaginative. Nehahra was Quake and imaginative. There have been several scores of maps which have been imaginative and still decidedly Quake (with or without any custom progs.dat) over these 15 years. Remake Quake is trying very hard to be every other game in existance while changing Quake's designs and gameplay for the worse and tacking on amatuer sounds, graphics, and effects. I suppose it may well be Quake, but it's still shit. 

> their programmers have copied every enhancement other modders have done for years in the field of engines

Sorry but that's a goddam personal insult. Have you even read my code? Do you even know what it's capable of? Quick to jump in and comment about things you haven't even a fucking clue about, aren't you?

Anyway, I'm not a mapper, I'm an engine guy, and I like writing rendering code that can handle insane amounts of detail and crazy brushwork at playable speeds. That's what I do.

I don't innovate, I react. If there is a need to handle a certain feature in code, and if the feature is reasonably sane, then I handle it; but that's driven by the requirements of the content and the people who use that content. I'm happy to do that, I get satisfaction and achievement from it.

Map-wise I judge a map by how much fun it is to play. "Fun" - remember that? No lofty sense of purity to the original here, if a map is fun then it rocks, if it's not fun then it doesn't.

I could give a list of older and more recent releases that I thought were not fun, but I've no interest in getting into a pissing contest over map quality. I know what I like and if I don't like it I can quite happily get on with the rest of my life ignoring it. I've better things to be doing with my time than expending energy on negative bullshit. It's not an affront to me that something I don't like exists in the world.

Portishead's first 2 LPs weren't great, but their third one is quite good, by the way.