did you actually read the readme file?

it is written pretty clearly

If you want to play the map with *your* original quake settings
delete the pak1.pak file. It contains the extra models (items) and
the quake.rc file with my recommended engine settings. 

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/spy3_backstein.rar 

@drew, looking forward to seeing your demo :)
@spy, wow oh wow that was awesome, I can't believe you did that skill 3 and with the hard mode + GK route as well. I still can't believe the amount of players who like nightmare skill so much. The spooning Shalrath's at the end was a classic! :) 

...s3 players are part siren, part muse. I'd love to see Siewolf tear up one of your productions :) 

so I played through again and I managed to get 8/10 secrets.

How the hell do you get the shotgun in the cage at the beginning?

I found quad, invis, 3 wind tunnel shootables, silver and gold key wind tunnels, all the start area secrets (though they don't seem to count towards the secret tally)... one of the shortcuts that opens with a shootable in the hard mode area...

Whatever the last secret (other than the beginning shotty) I cannot find. 

** SECRET SPOILERS **

There are two secrets which everyone has missed so far in demos and I am surprised because they were not designed to be hard to find.

The starting SSG is a button on the ceiling next to the level in pipe. I tweaked the lighting so that it can only be seen when directly standing underneath it.

The second secret is in the SNG pit on the SK side and lowers the second lift which is locked. I suspect no one finds this because people move around that arena in a certain direction. This is something I had not considered but the flow of arena can influence how people spot stuff. 

How do you manage to get out of bed in the morning? 

I understand what you're saying.

I still would point out though that a map (with custom models) should be flagged as a "CUSTOM MAP" or "MOD", rather "MAP"

For just a "MAP", typically you don't need to read readme's for special instructions such as that. You should just be able to extract the archive's .bsp and .txt files into id1 maps, and bam, you're done.

Otherwise, then the readme itself becomes abnormal or non-standard as well.

I thought this was just a map I was downloading; rather some special custom map/mod project.

Had I known the models were changed, I wouldn't played it. Who wants to play a game with different models in it after years of becoming familiar to the original models? Unless of course they know the models are changed because the download said "MOD" in it.

The models should've been excluded from the archive, and the readme should've said "want custom models? download the addon pak file here." 

* I completed it, it took me 3 attempts, as my skills got a bit rusty compared to previous demos and i got into nightmare and took the GK side first, but was worthwhile. On the other side, this time i almost forgot i was recording a demo, so i couldn't feel the pressure from it.

- All monsters killed, all secrets and vaults found, except the SSG and SNG secrets.

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/backstein_cocerello_night.7z

- The first demo is just the initital zone and me playing awfully and too hastily, so i died very early.

- For the second attempt, i played carefully and got till the shambler that took a free hit on me while i was on low life. I forgot to use both the GL and LG so i was a bit tight on ammo, but that made the experience better.

- In the third demo, i began to record at the point i died to reduce the size of the demos and to don't get you bored. This time i killed the shambler staying comfortably at the balcony by dragging the knights with grenades.



* About the map, is very, very good. Twistedly nice layout with variety of rooms and combat types, good architecture, nicely positioned secrets, the big secrets (vaults) are always nice to have, and some original ideas, all blended with your personal style.

- The idea of giving the players more options is good, and way more polished that in your previous map, interesting is too the secrets that show you another way to go and play, highlighting the wind tunnels ones, even though the crushers, with that chaotic and intense combat barely gives your brain room to think about them.

- The idea of having everything organized by the textures is a good one, the problem (or not), is that it makes the player get used to it, even thought that is a good thing because it makes it so the players understand the map better, that makes the players able to avoid certain parts and maybe makes too easy some parts (the secrets). The secrets, found one, found all (almost). Maybe a bit more variation would be better.

- Even though the rooms have personality and are detailed, sometimes it seems like it is too similar and there isn't too many rooms that make you look amazed at them, even more with the SK side. Mabe it is that big rooms look more epic, or it is about the textures, that need more variation.

- Like Vondur, i also thought that the wind tunnel in the SK side was a balcony, and spent some minutes finding the way to go.

- I haven't found the GK side particularly hard compared with the SK side, even though i tried it first. It has more monsters and more hordes, but i do think that it has a similar difficulty, even maybe the SK side is harder.
Maybe it was because i got hopes that it would be an nearly impossible side if i didn't completed the SK side first when i was reading the .txt and the comments here.

I'm not very found of those teleporting monsters at point-blank range. They are OK for hard and nightmare, but maybe for normal and easy would be better to drop them from some height or use the wind tunnels.
The knights using the wind tunnel was a very good way to deploy them, i am particularly fond of the wind tunnel deployment afar from the crushers in the GK side.
The shamblers, on the other side, can get some free hits and kill you if you aren't near cover when they appear.

- As you can see in the demos, even in nightmare, i wasn't struggling with the ammo and had way more than i could spam. But i do think it is nicely balanced, as that ammo is needed for those that haven't found secrets or used the traps and crushers.

- Overall, a very good map with no flaws, as the issues i mentioned before are VERY minor.

Congratulations, Sock!! 

You have to slow a bit when playing, i got a headache when watching your demo. Good skills btw, but which attempt it is?, sometimes it seems that you know where to go and where the monsters are beforehand. 

Sock, the first elevator at the SK side disappears sometimes, as you can see in the demos. I played it in Quakespasm 0.85.7, if that can help you.

I forgot to mention too how much i like the starting area and all its secrets, i always like to explore and that part was superbly well done and good for exploring. The part about hinting that there is something to explore there is nicely done too. 

someday i just wocken up















He's da man


______
i'm a bit drunken now (as always)

id like to play teh episode two (remixed by Simon)

and episode 4 once and firever 

brushwork, texturing and lighting are all top notch. I loved the theme and architectural style as well as the non-linearity.

As for gameplay, I found I always had too much ammo on normal despite the monster placement and gameplay setups generally being very fresh and well planned. The last arena was a bit too easy because of the 3 crushers and a blocked wind tunnel in the middle. It was very easy to lose a horde in the middle because of the blocking (and also avoid shambler lightning). The earlier arena with just two crushers and no blocking in the middle worked better. 

Skill 2 has some pretty intense combat :) First play demo of the first 25% or something: michael.hudsondoyle.geek.nz/mwh2.dem (played in RMQ i'm afraid). Probably should have played in tourist mode for the first go... 

http://michael.hudsondoyle.geek.nz/mwh2.dem 

@Sock: Thanks. I did enjoy the flanking possibilities of the map, good for replay value as it gives the player different choices as to how they want to approach the map. Always nice to have lots of room to move around in as well, opens up for some crazy evasive maneuvers and trickjumping, which to me is an essential part of what makes Quake so fun.

@Cocerello: Yeah I noticed that as well when rewatching some of my demo, I probably twitch around a bit too much, especially when there's no combat and just exploring and looking for secrets. Sorry about that.

It's my first attempt actually, the only part I had checked out before recording was the skill selection area. I think after having played the game and different custom maps so many times one develops a sort of "game sense" for these kinds of things - how a map will logically progress or where monsters will likely appear.

Again, great map, will have to replay it soon and take the GK route first this time! 

@Cocerello, yeah SK3 is really unforgiving especially with the shambler locations. The SNG trap is tough because the spawn location is right in the middle of the area and can cause problems if the player is low on ammo/health. To make matters worse the exit from that area is heavily populated, but the player can clear this area before picking up the SNG, it depends if the player understands the flashing runes or not.

I am surprised you saved so much ammo and did not use the LG very much. I thought by giving the LG early players would have fun with it more often. Unfortunately many of the demo's so far have players trying to kill shamblers with the SG/SSG when they have a huge ammo belt of nails/cells to play with.

The idea of having everything organized by the textures is a good one, the problem (or not), is that it makes the player get used to it, even thought that is a good thing because it makes it so the players understand the map better, that makes the players able to avoid certain parts

That is the point, the player has a choice, if they don't need or want certain weapons they can skip the trigger trap. The choice is in the players hands. The map is not designed for a single play through, there are many ways to approach certain areas and the flashing runes is a design mechanic that develops over time.

there isn't too many rooms that make you look amazed at them, even more with the SK side. Mabe it is that big rooms look more epic

Personally I love the SK side because of the vertical depth of the SNG room, it looks amazing to look up or down from within that area. I especially like the double Shalrath area in the corner with its many floors, weaving up and over each other. The SK certainly does not have huge epic space but it feels more interesting to me with gorgeous vertical eye candy and variety of floor heights.

I haven't found the GK side particularly hard compared with the SK side, even though i tried it first. It has more monsters and more hordes, but i do think that it has a similar difficulty, even maybe the SK side is harder.

The difficult of the GK side depends on which start route the player takes and if they want to have/use heavy weapons (SNG/RL) There are 3 starting routes for the crusher event:

1. Drop down pipe, fight ogres/HK and take one way lift down. This is the hard situation because the player has no space to retreat, no extra armour or weapons.
2. Drop down pipe, fight ogres/HK but open GL/MH balcony instead of taking lift down. This gives an important weapon early and buffs health for horde combat. Good starting location but things can get messy later on with the spike trap room.
3. Find secret button in wind tunnel and start in lower spike trap room. This is the easiest because the trap shooters empty the room, the player has a retreat location, gets armour and has a safe location for easily killing more enemies.

The GK side is about heavy weapons, horde combat and wide open spaces. The hard mode + is a way to start the area with less weapons and give the player more of a challenge by not relying on SNG/RL spam. Couple this with a different starting routes and the situation can get more difficult. The final wild card for the GK side is if the player uses the crushers or not.

The SK side is about tight spaces, planning attacks and effective use of floor heights. If the player rushes the encounters and thinks they can run around starting infighting they will be in for a surprise. Each side has its own merits and that is by design so the combat situations feel fresh across the while map. 

The way i said the part about your demo is a bit misleading, i was just commenting it as it is something very curious.

On the other side, i don't think there is a reason to feel sorry, you play the way you want. And it adds another way to play for the mapper and the rest to watch, and that is always good. 

@nitin, it sounds like you need to play skill 2. I was going to fine tune the ammo for skill 0/1 but then I decided that people who choose that skill want to enjoy firing the Nailgun like crazy. If you want ammo conservation then skill 2 is the one, the map certainly offers enough choices that it can be played several times.

@mwh, I wish the RMQ engine had proper demo support like MarkV, not being able to pause a demo is frustrating. I do like the extra eye candy but sometimes it can get too much with a room of HK and the screen just goes fullbright. Your demo felt like you were playing on another skill level and were trying to rush the encounters. At least the map worked really well on the RMQ/DQ engine. :) 

You can slow down or speed up the playback by lowering the host_framerate. If you set the value low enough, you can effectively pause the demo. 

was going to do just that, I have some time tomorrow morning or monday morning.

Will report back on skill 2 playthrough. 

1st run skill 2 no LG

2nd run hard + *with* LG 

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/backstein_drew.zip 

@negke, Unfortunately host_framerate is not an ideal solution because it slows down everything including the console response time. The pause function in MarkV is perfect and would be awesome if it became a standard across all Quake engines.

@Drew, thanks for your demo, awesome to watch. :) I especially like how you play with the monsters, setting them for infighting by moving around so much. I am glad you spotted the visual clues on the pipes in the central area. BTW you can jump to the first GA on the SK side. I usually prefer to go up the first set of steps, jump to the SSG, back up and then jump to the GA :D 

The map has been out a week and I have got 20 demo files!?! They all show various sides to the map and I am totally surprised by how many people took the time to record a demo. Thank you everyone, it was awesome to watch what everyone was doing with this map. :D

20 Backsteingotik demos - 80Mb file size

List of contributors : Berntsen, Cocerello, Daz, distrans, Drew, FifthElephant, generic, Johnny Law, mfx, Mwh, onetruepurple, quakis, Scampie, Shambler, SleepwalkR, Spirit, spy and Vondur.