I didn't mean to be overly critical, but it's a fact that the maps have those issues (and that it's possible to fix them.)

Don't kill the messenger. 

I was just pointing out, 'on the other hand, we are not stuck with their shitty tools . . .'. Not pointing fingers, it just helps to put things in context. It occurred to me that the mapper in your brick cut off example may have even tried putting a wooden beam for a rail there and found there was no way to align correctly with the editor he had. It looks like it falls short of 45 degrees there. 

the bottom plane right to left underneath the line so not to confuse the matter. 

can be found in heaps in every single id map.
Fixing them all would be quite unrewarding, or rather: If you were to align all textures, you could also fix the bad brushwork. If you fixed the brushwork, you could also add some more details, like trims and slopes. If you added details, you could also expand the maps further... And thus we'd have QuakeRMX. :) 

In the brick cut off example, it's a 30 degree angle. I agree that it would have been practical to put a rail on it, but perhaps the tools could not do that.

They could have easily used a different texture for that sloped wall though.

Realigning the textures practically requires messing with the underlying brushes, in some cases a lot, so you're already doing brushwork and to an extent, details. For example I'd delete those pasted-on lamps in the e4m1 shot and use texture blending to put them directly in the wall. I'd also visually break up the walls (in a base map, not in e1m3.)

I'd add small light fixtures/torches so most of the lighting would be sourced, unlike in the e1m3 shot above. For example, where does the spot on the GL come from, and why is the corridor lit when it has no light sources? It should be much more gloomy.

You'd want to build some monster closets etc. and include more and tougher monsters. It's a matter of taste if you use any custom monsters (drole in e1m3?...)

Expanding the maps is likewise a matter of taste. Personally I'd prefer something very close to the originals' layout (using the GPL source in fact) and just expand on the secrets like e1m1rmx does.

What Rudl does is theme-wise more extreme than what I have in mind, although I like that he doesn't treat the map as a holy cow. 

I didn't thought that it would led to a that big discussion.

You mean like the qouth remakes of the original levels? 

...#12317, larf till I felt much better. Thanx HT :) 

...getting a bit nostalgic today. Preach sent through what will probably be the last file required to button up Travail. I looked at the receivers list and thought "bloody hell, Scragbait and I had our first chats about a new quake mission after the release of Recurrent Rumours in June 2001". Pretty much 6 years ago.

How cocky at that stage to be writing to shambler and saying I was going to finish a four episode mission pack loosely based on Aristotle's four causes (matter, effect, form and finale). At each stage, as we swapped scraps of maps and ideas, Scragbait was supportive and honest. Actually, so was shambler before THE site closed.

As mapping progressed, some was kept.. some got tossed, but little was discarded altogether. The "QT00" start level got tossed then modified and became the start level for the first 100brush competition. My tower section for Speedy's failed Knave joint TM became the backbone for QTe2m2. Usher Recompiled became a testbed for ideas fleshed out in qtfin1 and qtdm1. Scragbait continued to establish his own kind of "real world" building in qte1m1&2&3 whilst testing ideas for same in maps like Spring Cleaning and HHouse.

We knew there were going to be additions to vanilla Quake required, and breathed a sigh of relief when tools like those developed by aguirRe started to become available and engines like fitz came on line. We hoped against hope to be able to encourage some coders on board and, they will correct me if I'm wrong but, one reason Preach and Asaki finally joined us was because we could send them actual levels within which to test their input.

We had to give up some ideas, the most memorable for me involves sending a long email to scragbait outlining a modification to Chthon which in effect gave us Quake's other captain as a mini boss; who lurked in swamps, threw explosive toxic slime balls and was only hurt by high explosive fire. Two days later Vondur released The Castle of Koohoo. Nnnargh!!!

Still, I love Koohoo so c'est la vie.

There's no real point to this post, as I said - just me being nostalgic - but it does remind me to thank those that joined, those that stuck, those that cheered, those that prodded without malice, those that showed interest without derision, and those that waited in patience.

July 9 2007 Roll on!!! 

I aim to please

I mean, I aim when I sneaze

(by tilting me head and closing one nostril)

but only on children, because their little
fists don't hurt so much. 

and not half as funny without the random line break 

Oops, yeah I have a hard time shutting up sometimes. Especially on weekends =)

Yes, I mean like e1m1rmx aka e1m1quoth or tpof (e4m? quoth remake.) Just staying pretty close to the originals, correcting only what's necessary (and realistic), putting in more monsters and expanding a bit on secrets, traps etc. Also making the lighting a bit nicer, dropping some more crates in the base maps, putting the shaft in e1m6, vis for transparent water, putting in a nice skybox etc.

Possibly reduce backtracking (I'm thinking of e1m3 here) by putting in a slipgate or two, and make the e1m3 lift bypassable.

Those are not just ideas, I intend to do that (episode 1) and have already started. I'm somewhat uncertain if I should use quoth though, as the additional monsters from the registered version already add a lot. I'm not certain which Quoth monsters I'd want to use - do we need three HellKnight variants in a map that previously had _none_?

I theoretically have places for one or two rocketeers, two Bobs, vorelings, and one or two gaunts... but for example I have no idea where to use flying polyps there... I like them, but I can't imagine them in any E1 map except House of Chthon. I'm also uncertain about the weapons and powerups, the hammer is just very Quake and the trinity could go in levels that don't have Quads... like e1m4 when fittingly enough, you get a SNG there :-) I don't see places for the PG and cross while the bomb could be fun in coop.

I don't know if such few Quoth entities would be worth it to make the whole thing depend on Quoth.

I like the monster spawning and the rotating stuff. I don't like that Quoth is not speedrunning-friendly. Quoth just isn't enough of a standard yet.

still shaking my head a little bit.

I could use some input here. 

Quoth has loads of neat features - the spawning and rotating as you mention, as well as other stuff its nice to have, like marshlights etc.

My votes for Quoth2 would be fixing the func_destroyable and maybe including a func_precipitation . . . but maybe that's asking too much.

Even if you leave out all the new creatures it'll be better for it.

Give the Hammer on mapstart, it replaces the virtually useless axe - its probably worth it for that alone, since it gives the player another way to approach the map. 

Preach / Than / Kell / Necros:

Could you also port in the OUM sleeping zombie? That lies dead until triggered and sadly doesn't work in Zerstorer.

I know you're busy enough, but that'd be a very cool thing to have. 

I should probably at least give it a try. I played the quoth maps a lot after JPL's map came out, and I have to say that I like it a lot better now (I used to hate the polyps, but now I can't stop playing kelltest1.)

I have a few more ideas where the stuff could be useful, for example there's one pretty obvious spot for a screenshake... and perhaps indeed polyps... with those walkways and lava and all (evil cackle)...

So, anybody have a link to the quoth .def file? It's not on Kell's site. I'd be thankful. 

Nevermind, I found the zip at Necros' site. 

Cool post to read. Funny how "long-term" things can be eh.

BTW, I found #12316 cheered me up more... 

...a double act to rival the greats, and not a straight man in sight :)

HuGs out to insane vulpes everywhere 

in Ishtar,

Or Brian and Stewie in the Road to Rhode Island :) 

Sorry, been busy of late - where would I find terrafusion these days? doesn't seem to be where I left it 

On the Road to the Marcher Fortress, or in the Trip to Pharmaceutical Oblivion. Helooo Kinn! 

Quarknet 

My preferred server is down.quarknet.org . 

it's quakenet you idiots. quake army knife doesn't have it's only irc network. 

only = own 

it's = its