Enforcer lazers which bounce of walls, like the energy balls in Portal or the purple thing out of UT? That would be cool!

Also please can we make feinds swim? They jump into water dead easily, then you cant see them, but if they floated, or even had the ability to jump out of the water back onto dry land then that would be cool. Imagine watching a feind swim across water, then jump out at you!!

Ijed - Please can you add blood splats? :P

Also voreballs could be shootable, so you can explode them before they hit you.

Dogs that howl occasionally...

A grunt with an axe AND a shotgun.... 

Close combat ideas generally good, but having grunts change between an axe and shotgun is pretty complicated. I've already got a few modified attacks on that score, although enforcers don't have a close attack yet.

Howling dogs - yes.

Blood will kill the entity limit.

Vores immune to their own explosions is good, and maybe some sort of force push close combat attack . . .

Swimming enemies is good.

I've got plans for the voreballs, making them shootable might just allow players to spam the vores to death. Maybe only on easy skill or something. 

Spawns hanging on walls and ceilings.

Rather than making voreballs destructible, let the player to slow them down with the LG.

Shamblers getting killed (read: spectacularly gibbed) when trying to do their lighting attack underwater, or submerged. 

1. Don't fuck with Quake monsters. If you want different monster behaviour, change the monster somehow so it's clear it's not a Quake monster. Quake monsters are good already. Additions can be good but make it clear they're additions. Want an aiming Ogre?? Give him or his weapon a targetter. Want a swimming Fiend?? Give it a few subtle fins. Want a close combat voreball-resisant Vore?? Give her some chitin armour and bigger claws. Give all of them subtle re-skins.

2. If you need to re-skin something, i.e. to make it clear it's a different monster, don't make them shit. It should be obvious but evidently it doesn't get heeded enough - we have good maps, good textures, good modifications, so re-skinning should be good too. And don't fuck with Quake monster skins, they're good already.

3. Same applies to new models although thankfully these days most of them are actually good.

4. It's Quake. QUAKE. If your addition doesn't scream Quake from every pore, then you're making it for the wrong game. Enhance the Quakiness of Quake, don't fuck it over.

5. Just because you CAN make something new and different doesn't mean you SHOULD. Just because you can change something doesn't mean it's a good idea. IF it's going to be something better, really good, really enhance the game, then go ahead. If not, then remember there's always the alternative to not do it.

Got that?? 

Shambler. But there are additions and then there are enhancements. The voreball resistant vore should be an addition, but I think swimming enemies would actually work best as a surprise enhancement. Quake's water aspects always seemed like a bit of an afterthought so I'd say enhancements like that would be bringing the game up to speed rather than altering it considerably. 

I'll concede that a Fiend might look a bit stupid doing the doggy paddle. Maybe they could just drown/melt when they jump in to deep liquid. 

for fat or skinny versions of existing monsters. Direfiends, gaunt shamblers, etc. Faster/weaker or slower/tougher than their brethren. The trick is differentiating them into territory that isn't filled by existing monsters.

We could use zombie versions of everything (face it, normal zombies are pushovers). Especially knights - zombie knights with swords that stagger toward you fast enough to worry about, and fast enough that you might have to put it down temporarily with the DBS to buy the time to back off to safe grenade range. 

Would make for good game play, a more aggressive Zombie, so you have to immobilize it whilst you panic and look for pineapples.....

Although I still think that a feind which could swim would be a good "enhancement", man I get sick of feinds just running around underwater for ever. 

And there's alot about the Quake monsters that isn't finished.

The vore is supposed to slowly kill itself when on top of a ledge and attacking the player?

All enemies can breathe underwater, in slime or lava and react as if in normal gravity, attacks included?

I'd like to agree with your vision for enhancing the Quakiness, but that gets in the way of my goal of making a Q1 mod that's a pile of shit. 

I thought of this as well. They'd be unable to throw their gibs like zombies or move as quick as knights, but be kind of hybrid. 

Which throw gibs that stick to walls and weakly explode after a while (akin to Nehahra's sprockets), and have their chainsaws stuck in heads :) 

Ok, I'm not at work so can respond reasonably. And with a bit less sarcasm.


1. Additions can be good but make it clear they're additions.

It is a mod. I could paint all the ogres red to show that they're aiming vertically, but this wasn't something done in, say, Nehahra. Granted alot of people hated the Nehahra AI and maybe I'll be on the borderline of alienating players who are comfortable with the way the monsters work.

I'm not happy with that, but if I tried to please everyone then the mod would fail or be ten years delayed.


2. If you need to re-skin something, i.e. to make it clear it's a different monster, don't make them shit.

Definately. ATF was ruined by shoddy skinning. I can imagine it took them days of frustration to get where it is, but it still spoils the mod and seems lazy. At the time they were probably spitting teeth to get the skins where they are.


3. Same applies to new models although thankfully these days most of them are actually good.

Bastard ;)


4. It's Quake.
Yes. It's all that needs to be said. If I think something will detract from the core of the game it's dead.


5. Just because you CAN make something new and different doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Same as above. With help from the Inside3d forums (Dr. Shadowborg) I figured out how to get a decent poison working. It was nice to learn and gave me a fresh understanding of the code. The spider (which uses it) doesn't fit in my maps though. I'm going to make it work perfectly and then decide if it goes or stays (as a hidden enemy in the progs). I have the time to mess around like this.


Got that??

One of my favourite func_ quotes - no, maybe you should type a bit slower. 

right on 

1. Clumsy Shamblers that manage to fall into the water float upside-down and flail around helplessly and make lots of noise.

2. White Shamblers get distracted and lose interest in the player if pink female Shamblers come into sight, and they promptly try to mate with the pink Shamblers.

3. Hell Knights have a personality disorder involving obsessive curiosity about teleporters and tend to stand around them and stare at them. 

What Baker said. 

I think some people are forgetting that this community likes Quake in its purity. There has always been a gap between mappers and modders, this is just another incarnation of the "problem".

Baker's ideas however are just great!


ijed: Please don't make the poison kill the player. Just leave 1-5 hp. Please! :) 

Do I give the female Shamblers tits?

I was thinking that the poison gets cancelled if the player reaches a health pack or is reduced to red numbers. Regenerating the lost health then would seem odd since the player doesn't have a HEV suit. 

I think some people are forgetting that this community likes Quake in its purity.

ooooh!!! Saucey. There goes all members PMing Spirit again to tell him what to say on their behalf.

Well I'm not a mamber of no GAY Quake community!! And I want ENHANCEMENTS!! And Ijed (low and behold) is mapping AND modding. There's one for yer G-Spot! ooooh!

I think the female shambler should have some scarring. Maybe one titty remaining. But I dont think she would suit a HEV suit. :P

(popcorn) 

I just forgot one word "majority" or something like that... I guess you know what I mean?

ijed: That sounds good! :) 

I was asleep on the floor in the office. Then I woke up feeling saucey! But now I'm OK :) 

http://www.lunaran.com/pics/she-bler.jpg 

No. 

"I think some people are forgetting that this community likes Quake in its purity."

I love Quake in its purity. I also like it in various other incarnations, I like it through the eyes of other people, I like its pacing to be changed by a new monster, a new gun, a new map, a modified monster, a modified gun, a modified map. I like to experience Quake as id released it, and as its users are curious to try it as.

I am fine with it as a sidescroller, I am fine with it as a vehicle for an RPG or a racing game, just as much as I am fine with it bearing a hue shifted Enforcer that is periodically invulnerable.

I've never understood the hatred for the concept of modding, it is no more changing of the game than an additional map because it is only an addition to the existing id game. Participation of the user is completely voluntary, and plenty of maps significantly change Quake from what could be argued as pure Quake, without changing a single line of code.

I don't know. Does Beyond Belief violate the purity of Quake by having a Chthon you can kill with weapons, along with acknowledging rocket jumps in game, and delivering personalized messages via centerprint? 

And it's a great ideas trap to bounce concepts back and forth. 

I think I like Quake anywhere
I am Quake's most biggest fan
as sure as I am lun-a-ran!

I like Quake upon a boat
I like Quake with eighty goats
I like Quake inside a box
I like Quake beside a fox!

I think about it in the car
zombies, shamblers, there they are!
Quake is awesome you must see
I even like it in a tree!

I am Quake's most biggest fan
as sure as I am lun-a-ran!