Since you don't map for quake, why are you so offended? 

He can't let that kind of thing continue unchecked. 

I looked at that geocities thing Spirit linked and checked out the 'top ten quake maps.' I downloaded five I hadn't played - Discordia, Bridges and Towers, Shadow over Innsmouth, Critters, and Temple del Sol.

Haven't tried innsmouth or temple yet, but re: the other three, Discordia and Critters were woefully short (like 40 monsters), and Critters had some sub-id level brushwork going on. Bridges and Towers, though, was pretty nifty. I was always hovering on the redline for ammo (especially when the whole map goes shambler-town) and you have to play way too much of the beginning with just the shotty, and too long after that with just the shotty/NG, but the architecture is really nice and consistent and the design is very cool.

http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2/levels/a-c/bnt.zip

Unless I'm the only one on earth who missed this map, in which case, bleh. 

bnt2 as well at the same place. You can find this and many other older maps here http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy.com/teamshambler/list.html with short descriptions. 

well that post was really in the spirit of a friendly, open-minded mapping community.

***NOT!!!***

people don't make good maps because someone's breathing down their neck barking arbitrary rules and orders at them. They're made because a good mapper has an intuitive understanding of what makes a game fun. 

Shadow Over Innsmouth is one of the all-time classics, sort of a 1996-era equivalent to Marcher Fortress in that it really pushed the quality standard.

It's been a long time since i played BNT, but i remember liking the structures but being dissapointed by the visuals -- I think it was too fully-lit and needed to be more shadowy like the E3MX levels.

Critters is a great example of the state of the art in 96 -- weird structures, lack of details, and not much texture alignment. Made with Thred of course. Jim's other map "House of Desolution" is also indicative of how things were back then. Worth playing for historical reasons, but not up to today's standards. 

Am I the only one who reads Quakecorpse's feedback as just friendly feedback from a quake enthusiast? He's basically saying "X is cool but underused, I wish more maps had X." Is there anything wrong with that? Becuase he doesn't map he doesn't get to have an opinion? 

well the way it's formatted, it kinda comes across as a bit shouty and angry - but yeah, if you ignore the caps and asterisks, then I can see what you're getting at... 

No to all. I agreed with some of what he said, he (she?) just happened to be a little flamboyant. 

Though it began with a list title header with the word, 'suggestions', every sentence that fallowed was in the imperative.

I realize it is now common for those who are in MBA type programs to be taught to write in this manner, qualifiers being considered a weakness instead of a show of wit or mental agilaty, traditionaly, the imperative when used excessively like this would be considered an insult. 

damn my Southern ears betray me! 

As a lowly player one isn�t worth a Shambler�s turd(I have seen this in a lot of communities, I know what I�m talking about); now if you contribute maps/mods/whatever, everyone�s like *tooth-paste grin*, because they can (and do) expect something from you, players are vampires.

Instead of getting your panties wet, you guys should appreciate someone making atleast an attempt at constructive criticism, maybe he�s some kid who has just played alot of so-called �oldskool� maps lately, let him develop his communication ffs.

Another thing is (and it took me a long time to realise), that �community� is not what this board is all about, alot of mappers here know each other from the old Qmap board and want a place to hang out etc. without annoying �intruders�, which is understandable.

I also realised that I�m feeling somehow bad, like some spammer when posting here, and I won�t let that unto me, I�d rather write a mail if I like a map that much. 

Why offended? Dont you see it was just a friendly feedback from a one quake enthusiast to another?
I'm basically saying If he knows that many secrets of making a good quake map, he should definately try his hand at it. It would benifit everyone.
Just answering him in exactly same 'friendly' manner.

Loonie: please... it got boring about a year ago 

1 Right, I apologize for the asterisks and imperative but i thinked they were more effective than: may i suggest that etc ...

2 Mappers can do what they want, of course, they can experiment what they like, but i still think that the core of quake is in that ten considerations.

Example,
I have played a map called mexx4. It's simple, small, bare, no new textures, no new critters, no great arch. etc. but it's was more fun for me than other beefed up maps, because it was closer to quake's core IMHO.

Frankly i can't understand why putting new stuff if you lose the basic, why adding a lot of extra and then you have a map that is like the binary of a train ...

@go to map yourself
Yes, i can understand ... but sometimes also the point of view of a (old school?) player can be useful ...

P.S. I loved the E4M4 Quoth remake, thank you very much for that ... 

replies should be posted in GA or appropriate sticky thread :)

News items and are for news only and new threads are only created for new discussion topics. Anything else pretty much goes here. 

yeah i know about teamshambler man 

I think many people around here have a certain "preserve the original Quake" feeling.
But we've all been playing quake for more than 10 years now, and even though I still love the classics, I enjoy having some new additions, like Zerstoerer, Nehahra, Qoth, which try more or less to expand on the universe, as opposed to silly random engine mods with laser guns etc. 

I'm like picky about monster placement -- if I've got an ogre, vore or shambler in a base-themed map, I want some sort of explanation ("specimen" in a cell/lab pilfered from alternate dimension, part of invading army from said alternate dimension, or some creature native to dimension with the base being for a human invasion]. And I don't think I'd stick anything outside a rotfish or maybe a spawn (tarbaby/whatever -- I don't like those things anyways) underwater, either.

Just because it's Quake doesn't mean you can't have some sense of setting, even down to the baddies. 

How there was a vore in CZG07a (a tech/base map) that had some fleshy stuff around it built into the map.

tarbaby is cool though, underrated/weird/original 

...yes! That was very cool. After gunning down the two grunts I got the shock of my life...but it wasn't a "what is that doing here" experience, more a "oh, that also pushed through" one. Very average monster placement in terms of gameplay, but excellent in terms of scene setting, story telling, continuity etc.

tarbabies hurt :( 

...what sort of release date are you looking at for Warp? 

i think that zombies and scraggs can work underwater pretty easily. I wouldn't naturally pick enforcers to do it, but I can understand the justification that he has a mask over his face and a backpack that could contain compressed air or whatever. 

... http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jun99/927916034.Ph.r.html

Could make for a good mod? 

@Bal: though I still love the classics, I enjoy having some new additions

i'm not against modding: quoth opened new horizons for quake, it added extra (cool) stuff and it mantained the core of the game (like weird unreal settings, multiway etc.), better than this?

@sielwolf: (have you played metlslime�s Antediluvian map?/ ant.zip)

played and loved, after that i was wondering if a mix between liquid-despair,antediluvian, and maybe low gravity, like e1m8, should be fun.

@metlslime I wouldn't naturally pick enforcers to do it but I can understand the justification that he has a mask over his face and a backpack that could contain compressed air or whatever.

yes, exactly.
Standard Quake has low variety of monsters (ok, it's 10 years old)and then if you start to cut off grunts, enforcers, dogs, spawns, fishes ...

theorically if you have slipgates, you can have humans slaves in quake world and quake monsters in the human bases ... 

are OP!