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Posted by SleepwalkR on 2013/03/17 15:55:36 |
Quaketree brought up the idea that the community needs to rescue / dig out the information from this forum and other sources and store it in one accessible place.
Others chimed in and most agree that this place should be a wiki. Spirit has suggested Quaddicted, and I personally agree that it's the right place for such a project, but the Wiki over there seems to be limited. Others (Willem, me) have also volunteered to set up such a Wiki.
Let's discuss this idea further in this thread. I think it would be a fantastic thing to have a community Wiki for Quake level design.
UPDATE: there is now a URL: http://quakewiki.org/ |
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Grr
#94 posted by than on 2013/03/25 05:50:40
I should have read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Article_titles
First letter is uppercase, any actual uppercase letters in names etc. are uppercase, and everything else is lower (sentence case as opposed to title case as mentioned on that page)
God damn :/
Oh And...
#95 posted by than on 2013/03/25 05:53:32
{{DISPLAYTITLE:func_button}} Works fine for entity names! Yay.
I don't think you can capitalise using it though, since it didn't work when I tried to "fix" Entity Guide.
I'm Fine
#96 posted by quaketree on 2013/03/25 06:10:04
I'm also clueless as to how editing wikis is done regarding formatting. I am quite literally learning as I go.
If I'm messing up someones page I expect a flame here.
"Only Open Source Works Referenced On Wiki?"
#97 posted by Baker on 2013/03/25 06:43:19
John Carmack: Open sourced Quake. He didn't have to.
John Romero: Open sourced Quake map sources.
Spirit: Open sources; he didn't have to.
Negke: Open sources; he doesn't have to.
Travail: The QuakeC was open sourced by Asaki a year ago; no one made a horrific Frankenstein from it.
The Lost Chapters: Open sourced @ QExpo 2005
Willem: Open sources; he doesn't have to.
LordHavoc: Open sources ... he could DLL stuff and easily has the talent to do so and wouldn't have to.
Rubicon 2: Didn't have to. Metslime did anyway.
TrenchBroom: Didn't have to. SleepwalkR did anyway.
Yes, I have long had issues with closed source works in Quake and not just in single player and I've taken "the hit" for supporting open source willingly and sometimes with "social penalty" without remorse or regret.
[If you would like the <numerous> other examples of challenging closed source works, I'd be more than happy to olige; off hand I think I've done this with at least 15 closed-source Quake projects so it will be somewhat tedious and boring to others not familiar with it ...]
No
Can't be the Quake wiki if you exclude Quoth, for example.
Still Fiddling Around
#99 posted by than on 2013/03/25 07:34:02
omfg, wiki markup is horrible. I want to have a shower after my encounter with tables.
Anyway, here is a little test for func_button. I would like to include more information, such as an image, and some kind of table for spawnflags, but this is all I've done so far:
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/func_button
I don't love tables, but I think tables are a bit clearer than the indented list style used by quaketree on the func_door page. Ideally, we'd create a template for this kind of table, so that it can be better formatted for the specific kinds of information we want to display, and also be easier to edit from then on. wikitable is itself a template, if we had one called keyvaluetable or something, it would be helpful. I'll have a look at that later.
I Wrote A Few Other Bits And Bobs
#100 posted by than on 2013/03/25 08:30:39
One thing I added was worldspawn. This made me think about non-standard keys, such as _sunlight and other various light options, as well as those specific to modern engines, such as fog (is fog supposed to use an underscore by the way? _fog?)
It would be good if we could think of some nice clean way to add this kind of information and set up a nice, easy to read template for representing it.
I'm taking a break for now. I want to do some mapping instead.
Level Shots Of All Id Maps
#101 posted by than on 2013/03/25 10:08:59
I took the liberty of taking screenshots of all the standard id maps, resizing them and putting them in an archive. I'm going to try and create a basic page for each level now, but I don't know how far I will get with it. For anyone who wants the shots, I've uploaded them here:
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/quake_level_shots_1024x768.7z
Creating A New Page
#102 posted by than on 2013/03/25 10:15:16
Is there some way on the wiki to create a new page without first creating a link? There doesn't seem to be a "create new page" link anywhere :/ Maybe I am just blind.
#103 posted by Spirit on 2013/03/25 10:23:55
i made the wiki not force the first letter to be uppercase because so many things in quake would look silly with that. this means that you decide on the case when you create a page. moving pages is not problem, maybe I should make you all admins so you can do it?
for templates see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates
than: feel welcome to take anything from https://www.quaddicted.com/quake/episodes_maps for that :)
#104 posted by Spirit on 2013/03/25 10:24:59
new page: just visit the url where you want it to be and it will offer the option to create it.
Spirit
#105 posted by than on 2013/03/25 10:39:19
I had a feeling that info already existed and didn't think to look in the most obvious place.
Ok, well so far I haven't gotten anywhere because wiki markup is a headfuck and a half. It's the most horrible, not especially well documented language ever. Also, I didn't notice there were already templates for level information etc. I would have used them if I had.
I tried to add one for level information based on the wikipedia film infobox, but the wiki told me infobox didn't exist, so I just copied the one from wikipedia. That didn't turn out so great, so I have no idea if I've broken anything or not. It would be great if you could check it out and perhaps delete the crap templates I tried to add.
Also, if you are free, could you join #terrafusion so we can chat about this?
#106 posted by Spirit on 2013/03/25 11:32:09
Not until later. But I have no idea about templates and stuff myself. Made you admin for now but don't stress cleaning up too much. Stuff will grow and what is "perfect" will only emerge itself from evolution.
Ok
#107 posted by than on 2013/03/25 12:11:59
You are right, we should just get the information up, then worry about formatting and improving what's there.
I modified the sp level template a bit (still looks shitty) and made the information contained the same as https://www.quaddicted.com/quake/episodes_maps (minus speedrun links) and have no uploaded all map shots and created stub pages with just the basic info for the first two eps + start and end.
I don't really fancy doing any more right now, but I've a feeling that leaving 2 episodes without any info is going to annoy me too much and I'll come back later and add stubs.
I think the level template should probably be closer to the usual level info page on Quaddicted (example: https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/mce.html) than the current template, so it's less annoying to add information about less popular episodes and important custom maps - I don't want to have to check the monster count, secret count and cd track ;)
More
#108 posted by than on 2013/03/25 14:34:58
I made a really rough (and shit looking because I can't figure out wiki formatting) test for the e1m1 level information page.
Perhaps writing the secrets is overkill (and a lot of work), but I think it might be nice to eventually add all this kind of information. The Doom wiki is MUCH nicer than what I've made so far, so ideally we would have something like this for all standard maps: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/E1M1:_Hangar_(Doom)
Actually, I just realised that the existing Quake wiki at wikia already has a lot of information about the standard maps and enemies, so perhaps it's not worth duplicating that?
http://quake.wikia.com/wiki/E1M1:_The_Slipgate_Complex
INSANELY detailed in fact.
Should we just concentrate on the mapping related content?
And Thus...
#109 posted by bal on 2013/03/25 14:48:24
than's OCD is revealed.
#110 posted by Spirit on 2013/03/25 14:54:53
_the_ Doom wiki is at http://doomwiki.org , please don't like the other one. the community moved there.
the wikia on quake is full of errors and a bit crazy. wikia is bad.
again, do whatever you like! I think secrets on the map pages is a great idea. a complete walk-through seems a waste of time though. for doom it is easier as that is 2d.
yeah, check out what is already there :)
I believe if there is a good foundation or good examples, people will fill the rest.
and now go sleep/map!
#111 posted by Spirit on 2013/03/25 14:56:51
OCD??!
I thought about arranging the items in http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Mapping_tools#General_Purpose_Editors so they form a nice complete curve.
#112 posted by necros on 2013/03/25 15:07:28
btw since we're talking about formatting, for the coding articles, i'm just using a format similar to java docs.
Can The Font Be Larger
#113 posted by DaZ on 2013/03/25 16:17:50
Because, you know, my eyes hurt :(
Aside from that, it looks great so far. I'll definitely contribute some stuffs!
My Contribution
#114 posted by RickyT33 on 2013/03/25 16:36:30
Tested in Firebug. Works.
.monaco_shrinkwrap {
position: relative;
margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;
width: 960px;
}
Comooooon
#115 posted by RickyT33 on 2013/03/25 17:34:37
It's begging for it. That four column table layout on the main page is screaming 'reduce my width!!!'.
#116 posted by Spirit on 2013/03/25 17:38:10
RidcekqyeTr23! Calm down and wait for Starbuck to say "I am done". I set a maximum width and bigger font-size for now.
It Works!!!
#117 posted by RickyT33 on 2013/03/25 18:46:37
#118 posted by negke on 2013/03/25 19:05:02
I prefered the original width. With this new one it looks constricted.
The level pages should be named in uppercase, btw.: E1M1 instead of e1m1.
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