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my gosh, just quit haggling about it. Let the artistic creativity from the mappers happen without all the "this isn't Quake" bullshit.
We're on a FORUM and are entitled to share our opinions on the matter. I'm pretty sure sock reads these threads and likes feedback. If you want to tamp down constructive criticism you are damaging the process and open dialogue. That's something a lot of people here enjoy. Let's imagine EVERYONE hated the new effects and were afraid of upsetting people like you who can't handle a different viewpoint? Would that help anyone? Sevin and I were completely respectful in our critiques. If there's any bullshit here - it's coming from somewhere else. "Please note : This is an alternative universe of Quake, many assets and features have changed, even though it may look the same in places this code base and assets are very much different."
Bringing up points on if this is Quake enough for you/others is pointless, as it's not Quake. Yes, this is a forum, but the point is that every time someone exerts a little creativity outside of the Quake purists idea of acceptability it becomes "it's not Quake for me, can we turn it all off, yada yada yada". Did you play ad_tfuma, cause I swear in the middle of that I "realized" was playing Q2!!! Anyway, maybe my use of the word BS was out of line, apologies for that. Hope this helps, if not, bring down the console and type map E1M!, problem solved :-P Yes, this is a forum, but the point is that every time someone exerts a little creativity outside of the Quake purists idea of acceptability it becomes "it's not Quake for me, can we turn it all off, yada yada yada".
I'm no Quake purist that's for sure. You're right about AD being something that's basically "new" and yes, we have our id1 to fall back on but here's some food for thought: At first, just like everyone else in '96 I played blocky pixelated software Quake. For many years after that I played mushy, blurry GL_Quake because that felt right to me. After trying Quakespasm and indeed AD 1.0 which "forced" the player to play with pixels on by default I came around to really enjoy pixelated Quake. It feels more authentic and classic. Kind of akin to watching a movie in black even though there's a colorized version of the same movie that looks a bit cleaner. My point is, that no matter what Quake really IS it's always changing and morphing and opinions change and morph along side it. And it's definitely fun and exciting to talk about it. I never saw a Quake map that wasn't from the Quake universe.
Here's my simple definition of the Quake universe, or there is none : Any map that can be played/rendered by a Quake engine is from the Quake universe. Quake is a Multiverse of parallel dimensions. The player/space-marine can go from one dimension to another one using slipgates and teleporters. So whatever the architecture and monsters he may encounter, he's traveling the Quake universe. In some cases, he's entering a medieval place, bringing with him his usual modern weapons. In other places, the military occupies the dimensions. Because of the existence of slipgates, the forces of evil infected the whole Multiverse, so the space-marine tries to find the exit to return home (or base). Sadly, he's just lost in a Multiverse of infinite dimensions, so he'll never find back his true home. The visual effects and game interface has nothing to do with the Quake universe. That's my personal view. What he said (dump and sevin), especially the reemergence of crisp pixels.
I like to think of Quake like this: The universe. The funnel. Rejects of the worlds, Fallen from glory, cast down. Caught in the base, These monstrous beings, Led by their master Quake. Restoration--their hope, Their goal. Back to their homes. Then...revenge! If the universe was a funnel, and all the world's had the same "hell" at the bottom, that is where we find ourselves, the player, desperately fighting our way back, or fighting to prevent the forces of evil from return to exact revenge on any world they can manage to return to. If only those darned scientists didn't create a slipgate and discover that the slipcurrents flow down to the bottom of the universal "funnel". Exploration demo:
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/sep_03_ankh.zip starting from where I left yesterday. boring stuff. I'm pretty sure sock reads these threads and likes feedback
I do read the func forums, I just don't reply to them much anymore. I keep an eye on the AD threads for bugs and new ideas. If I think the feedback/feature is useful to others, I will make sure its in the next version! I was away last weekend so I asked Henrik to start a thread for this map and I am sorta surprised it has gone so well! I was expecting everyone to go crazy about using a new engine. I do hope everyone realizes that there are two engines in the zip file! Quakespasm AND Quakespasm-spike. We did spend a long time trying to make sure that both work fine with the map. The QSS engine can run the map without rain, use impulse 160 command or add 65536 to temp1 variable in quake.rc to stop rain effect+sound. It can be a heavy drain on resources and the map still looks good with the DP style particles for items and blood. Dots, pixels and particles! AD has always been about particles from day one, its just that many people here have not played AD with DP/FTE clients. The fact that everyone is seeing DP style smoke and soft pixels for the first time is surprising. I really like the QSS client as a good replacement for DP because of its QS movement and effects. The rain/snow in QSS is the best version out there IMHO. I can certainly add an option to the temp1 variable in quake.rc file to always force pixel like particles and still allow weather effects at the same time. I am planning a final release (1.60) zip file with all maps, patches and fixes together. I believe it is easier to install for macOS users, who have issues with overwriting files. @Skacky, thanks for the demo's, they are always a pleasure to watch. I know about the flaws with the boglord, I tried to fix as many as possible. There is a whole sequence of events that happens if the player uses the water area for example. The boils are hard to see so you gain a surprise. If they glowed or looked obvious their real threat, shock and surprise would be gone. My favourite part of the boils is to work out how each one affect its surroundings. There are many setup in certain locations to catch unsuspecting monsters! I played an older version of the level before but a lot of it has changed I really hate public beta's, early access or sneak peaks of maps. it creates unnecessary expectation and usually ends up with someone being disappointed because its changed in a way they do not like. This map went through a lot of iterations and I think the changes made it overall stronger. Its not easy deleting stuff or re-arranging, but being attached to something in a map is a recipe for disaster in the long run. Grenades go right through the fishing ogres, even when they turn into regular ogres This is by design, I don't want fishing ogres waking up to grenades and if the player decides to kill them then they better be ready for a good fight! Fishing ogres are the good guys, killing them is wrong! :P what about possible future evolutions of standard QSS? Would Spike merge your tweaks with his version I really hope so, but that is up to Spike. I have watched two streams so far with Daz panicking when he reached the end and deciding to go all the way back to the beginning of the map! WTF! Fifth discovering new stuff each time he restarted the map and then deciding to go backwards through the center of the map and tell everyone how its changed! :P @Vondur, thanks for the demos, it was relaxing to watch. I hope you enjoyed yourself. @path0gen, thanks for the demos. I tried to watch them, but you just kept going back searching for secrets all the time. I just wanted to see you complete the map!?! :) @sevin, there is always unpopular opinions at func! I would not worry about. I know the different effect systems (Pixel/Smokey) are not going to be liked by everyone. Just use the engine you prefer and AD will switch around to suit your style. Also try out 'r_scale 2' if you really want pixel vision! :D @AAS, thanks for the demos. Again you do seem to be addicted to going back all the time searching for secrets! I really need a forward wind button for demos there is too much ammunition. I found myself never running out of shells, nails or rockets, even if I missed many of my shots. I totally agree, there is a truck load of ammo for all weapons. You can use a triple barrel shotgun to blast your way through the map, write your name on walls with the nailguns and fill rooms to your hearts content with pineapples! I did not want to make this map a resource struggle and there is plenty of ammo so that everyone can have fun with their favourite weapon. Just enjoy the excess and throw caution to the wind and blast your way through the map without worrying about where your next box of ammo is coming from! :D I really need a forward wind button for demos
Doesn't MarkV do that? This feature should definitely be borrowed by the other engines. I did not want to make this map a resource struggle and there is plenty of ammo so that everyone can have fun with their favourite weapon. I fully support this POV. Vanilla Doom and Quake are chockful of ammo. Ammo-starving gameplay can be interesting too but it's waaaay different than mindlessly blasting your way through a map the way id did! Music in Sepulcher is set to track 0. When you do the final release, would you mind setting a proper track number? Thank you. Also, is it possible for users to ajust the sound volumes of stuff like footsteps and rain?
Alright! So I'm barely 1/5th in and it's already one of my top 3 AD maps alongside Smelly Sockbottom and Leftist Mania - gotta find a funny nick for this one too! Will continue later, need at least a few hours' sleep.
I agree it was good to have lots of ammo. For me the challenge was just finding the way to progress - adding a strict ammo management element on top of that would only have been frustrating.
Then again, sock must be kept in a state of constant pressure and self-doubt, otherwise he may decide he has achieved perfection and moves on. So tbh this map is kinda okayish, yeah, hmm... :D
Very enjoyable, so much to explore and impressive details everywhere one turns. Brush porn and level props scattered all over, and lots of destructible things, especially in combination with those sticky or walking bogeys, create a very vivid environment (for the lack of a better description). Imagine a whole game with levels like this one - would take only the first episode to create an epic journey through all sorts of places and probably something that could stand its ground among games today, at the least in the indie department. Great connectivity, getting lost/remembering the way is part of the experience; and crazy secrets. I only found half of the marked ones. Bit random, though. Sometimes cleverly hidden items are not counted as secrets, other times easy stuff or things in the open are. Slightly inconsistent on a few occasions, too. Normally, the yellow windows and book shelves are unbreakable, except a selected few can be destroyed for passages. Not a big deal of course, just mentioning it before someone brings up the "axing every surface" criticism. Even though I ran out of ammo once, there's plenty of supplies, especially since everyone's bound to find at least some secrets. I really like the optional goals, finding the sacrificial fiends, books, bog lord, crypt etc. They add mileage and interactivity to the level. The rusty key reward came in handy in the end, although I was at a miss as to where I could use the key (easily missable message btw) and gave up looking for the door soon after getting all the corpses. Didn't find the planets room sadly. It seems there's a lot to say about this, but I dunno - speechless probably. At any rate, very enjoyable experience, another masterpiece in the history of Q1SP, and certainly worth replaying! Good job Giftmacher, sock, and engine guys. Demo: part 1 part 2 sock is just trying to bring Rococo style to Quake. ;)
http://interiorator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/dourades.jpg
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