it is a video game, not sure how fighting demons on mars is 'real life' and really most game stories are C grade garbage. All that stuff, if it is necessary at all, should be secondary to actually good game mechanics and level design. 

(actually I totally agree, the only part of Carmack's views I disagree with is hyper-simple gameplay). 

The demons are not real?

;_; 

Next you'll be telling me that the Seal of Nehahra wasn't a documentary 

kona, is porn stupid because women wouldn't be willing to have sex with you in real life 

Im just gonna say here I'm holding back from ranting away and this is better for everyone. 

 

Promises, promises... 

Video here. 

Sounds like some of you just want a doom 2 clone. Random levels that have no purpose and feel like video game levels, constantly pressing buttons to open doors which makes no sense in real life

On the subject of classic doom chat, that Romero map has prompted me to have a big Doom binge, and the overwhelming impression I have from the level design in classic Doom/Doom2 is that they don't care that's it's a completely chaotic layout where most of the time you find the key before you find the door, because you just look at the minimap to figure out where you haven't been yet and where you need to go next.

People like to bang on about "oh look at how dumbed down modern levels are now, why can't they be like classic Doom", but without the minimap, the whole thing completely and utterly breaks down.

Just my opinion.

Seeing the change in level design philosophy between Doom and Quake, and the corresponding abandonment of the minimap is very interesting. 

That actually sounds quite good, and if the game plays like this, I suppose it will be fun. I just have a hard time imagining how such gameplay would work on a console without the player dying all the time, so it sounds unlikely that the game really plays in the way that they described in the video. But I will reserve final judgement until after I have actually played it. 

Kinn - Agreed. Doom level was design, to me, was mostly chaos where you could almost see inside the level designers head as you progressed through. 

Gotta be honest, that video raises my hopes. 

Seeing the change in level design philosophy between Doom and Quake, and the corresponding abandonment of the minimap is very interesting.

Yeah, it is. Nevermind doom4's weapon wheel and glory kills, the occasional long periods of searching for secrets/door/switches really breaks the momentum of classic doom's core gameplay.

Since doom is nothing but combat there is no story or aesthetic to make those times more interesting. Then again, it would be difficult to fall back on story and atmosphere with a tempo and player speed as fast as doom. 

the occasional long periods of searching for secrets/door/switches really breaks the momentum of classic doom's core gameplay.

The thing that really surprised me is just how much time I spend in the map screen (it's a lot), and how often I find myself just backtracking over the whole level whilst staying within the map screen.

Quite often, the critical path is hidden behind a secret wall and you only figure out where you need to UNF UNF UNF by looking at the map. 

I played the multiplayer on a weekend where I could have played *all weekend* and I uninstalled after 2 hours of utter hate.

I really hope the singleplayer delivers because I was really unimpressed with the 'watered-down halo' experience. 

The thing that really surprised me is just how much time I spend in the map screen (it's a lot), and how often I find myself just backtracking over the whole level whilst staying within the map screen.

I'm on a bit of a doom binge myself and noticed excessive time in the minimap. Of course, if I could just remember all the secrets this wouldn't be an issue :P

I'm curious to see how doom4 is going to incentivize exploration and secrets. Since you just have to glory kill enemies to get extra health I suppose they'll just fall back on primarily weapons/ammo. I doubt secrets will be very rewarding/impactful as I'm sure they don't want to compromise gameplay for non-explorers.

Doom's exploration and minimap isn't perfect and can be frustrating, but many times simply finding the secret is rewarding in and of itself... so much so that one will sit and look at a minimap for 5 minutes just to find it. 

With IDDT I even used to kill stuff in the map. Let alone wandering all around. 

A map system similar to the one in Metroid Prime would be pretty cool. I'm not sure how much it would make the game feel more like the classics, though. 

Descent was 3D and had a 3D map, but the level design was still very much from the "here's a maze full of keys, get lost sucker" school of thought.

http://www.dosgamers.com/uploads/images/original/descent1f.jpg 

Ok so the silly pinata drops come from executions etc, maybe could be seen as a demonic reward for brutal and evile actions, that's a concept that can be worked with for some better immersion in the setting.

So without debating the wrongness of the whole health/armor dropped by monster thing could they of maybe not used those stupid q4a like techy symbols for the drops ?

Something more fitting could be a glowing floating orb of blood or a suspended mist of sorts, I dunno, something that at least ties in "magic" with the stupid concept to pass the pill. Anything better than "here is a floating glowing easy enough for a 3rd grader to understand" symbol. 

I have the impression the game is being made for 3rd graders, thats the target-audience with the most money to spent, and the least "taste" in that regard.
In my impression. 

A third grader understands that red cross = health, does that make the original Doom stupid too?

Everybody hated UT3's utterly hamfisted explanations of CTF and respawning and Doom 4 not doing that is a good decision. 

A third grader knows that it's "could they have", not "could they of". 

A third grader feels that correcting people's spelling mistakes in a petty way is worth their while.