From sevin :

"But I think the fire particle effects look a little silly"

I think he's talking about the little dots from Sock, not the new special effects from Spike. I agree that these floatting pixels are feeling a bit weird, especially when combined with Spike's effects. But it's okay for me.

From dumptruck_ds :

"They feel very Q3A and out of place for sure. Same with the enhanced explosions."

Now I think he's talking about the effects from Spike, not the pixel-dots particles moving from the flames that comes from Sock. I don't agree with him here. I think these effects are great and add a lot to the pixelized game.

Maybe the QuakeSpasm-spike-admod application should contain an option in the interface to toggle IN/OFF the new effects ?

Spike (and Eric ?) : I would also like to see some waves on water, when the player moves/walk in it. 

short version:
pr_checkextension 0 should stop AD from using QSS's particle system.
The map itself will still use rain particles, but the dp effects should no longer be loaded.

long version:
QSS has a compat layer for DP particles. The fact that people here are saying that they look like DP's just goes to show that the compat layer is working, for better or worse.
Using the compat layer means more engines can have acceptable particles without having to redo the particles for every single engine out there (especially when Sock had initially created most of the effects for his earlier ITS mod, and with the extra AD effects still exclusively with DP in mind, and iiuc derived from SMC). Imho vs FTE/QSS's native particles, DP's lack things like spawn patterns resulting in a general puffiness to the effects; whereas FTE's particles do a decent enough approximation of both hexen2 or quake2's effects (or at least the ones I implemented).
The puffiness is then compounded by the use of pointparticles instead of eg .emiteffectnum, which bloats the networking and gives bursts of particles rather than a more continuous stream. Again, DP compat...

The QSS engine has absolutely no new particle effects built in. ALL new effects are being read from some mod-specific file. The only particles from me specifically are the ones inside the fte_weather.cfg file, which are basically just rain+snow effects.
The r_particledesc cvar says which effects the engine tries to automatically load (defaulting to some 'classic' placeholder).
However, AD then detects support and uses the whole namespaces thing and in doing so forces the engine to load additional effects (which take precedence over the classic effects) while also suppressing the mod's own fallbacks.
If you want to disable the particles, either tweak world.qc to prevent the mod from detecting FTE_SV_POINTPARTICLES, or hack the engine to not advertise it
Note that pr_checkextension 0 will prevent ALL qc extensions from being advertised, thankfully AD still doesn't depend on any extensions thanks to vanilla QS. However, I'm not going to add that option to any menus because it would break mods that depend upon (other) extensions. The choice of whether to use extensions or not MUST be made by the mod, not the engine, anything else is hacky/flawed. Presumably this would be best done using cvars thanks to QSS supporting the set/seta console commands (or possibly just another unreadable temp1 bit).

@Barnak: waves like http://triptohell.info/moodles/junk/fte00040.jpg ? 

This one single map, is basically an entire episode in of itself. As I'm sure you can understand, I did not record a demo because I really wanted to take my time playing this, to explore every nook and cranny and really admire the overwhelming detail put into it, really soaking in the atmosphere.

While I agree that the particle effects seemed somewhat out of place, except for the rain, it didn't hinder my experience any. I just rolled with it.

There wasn't a single moment that I wasn't in awe of the design. So many destructible walls and wooden planks, vines hanging from passageways, slabs of brick loose from their walls, skulls, books and gibs littered everywhere. This map is an incredible addition to Arcane Dimensions, as if AD wasn't already successful enough, this one map makes it even more so. Honestly if you rush through even one room of this map, you're missing on some incredible looking details. Its no wonder it required an enhanced Quakespasm engine, which I had no issue setting up.

My only one complaint, and it is so minor, is that there is too much ammunition. I found myself never running out of shells, nails or rockets, even if I missed many of my shots.

As I said I really spent a lot of time on this map, an hour and a half it said. In the end, I only found 29 of the 50 secrets, but I did find the big one which is I'm guessing, the room with the rotating planets. However the message that appears describing the presence of a lich demon, if there was a such an enemy, I couldn't find it. I could only find the bog monster, as well as the 8 kraken children. The only significant secret I couldn't find, was the door leading to the rooftop, locked by the silver key. I get the feeling I missed more though, as my monster count in the end was only 475 out of 510 or so.

But wow, my god, what a journey. There's if ands or buts, this map is an absolute must play. And if you don't like the idea that you have to use another engine, tough. Do it anyway, because its well worth it. This is a 10/10 from me, an astounding job to the AD team as always. 

About waves on water, I mean something like what can be seen in Quake3 : just a feel of "fake" riddles moving on the water (without 3D effetcs).

Also, is it possible to get some subtile reflections on the surface of water ? 

Spike, your picture is too dark. Can't see anything on it. Except that it do looks a bit like what I was talking about, yeah. 

From dumptruck_ds :

"They feel very Q3A and out of place for sure. Same with the enhanced explosions."

Now I think he's talking about the effects from Spike, not the pixel-dots particles moving from the flames that comes from Sock.

Yes I'm sorry I wasn't more clear the way I wrote it. I like the original particles from AD 1.0-1.5 The newer (higher-res?) QSS effects feel somewhat out of place to me BUT it must be gratifying for sock and company to try new things and enhance the game. The rain is cool as are some of the teleporter and pentagram effects. What I dislike are the flames and explosion effects. Some people like the new effects, some don't. Now that I have the executables running properly (thank you Giftmacher) I'll take a closer look at the new stuff in the Spiked version.

I need to re-read Spike's post #77 again as I am very interested in what's at play here regardless if I like the aesthetic or not. :) It's just a bit over my head technically.

No matter what though - we ALL win. Amazing content and tools that excite mappers and players is a good thing. 

I think he's talking about the little dots from Sock, not the new special effects from Spike. I agree that these floatting pixels are feeling a bit weird, especially when combined with Spike's effects. But it's okay for me.

I was talking about the new particles, not the pixeled ones. I don't think this game deserves "high-def" particles when the rest of the world is so low-poly and pixelated by comparison. That's primarily why I use QuakeSpasm over DarkPlaces or any other engine. I just want vanilla Quake, no "modern" graphical enhancements. Kinda ruins the Quake feel. I did like the rain though. It's subtle enough to work well. 

Kinda ruins the Quake feel.
That's a matter of opinion. 

Didn't want to use "I think" and "for me" in every sentence. 

 

Please, just get over yourselves! It's 2017 and... ad_sepulcher ISN'T a low poly vanilla Quake map in any sense of the words.

You have options to play without effects but my gosh, just quit haggling about it. Let the artistic creativity from the mappers happen without all the "this isn't Quake" bullshit. 

Q3A water isn't an engine-side effect, it's content. 

Let the artistic creativity from the mappers happen
This. 

my gosh, just quit haggling about it. Let the artistic creativity from the mappers happen without all the "this isn't Quake" bullshit.

We're on a FORUM and are entitled to share our opinions on the matter. I'm pretty sure sock reads these threads and likes feedback. If you want to tamp down constructive criticism you are damaging the process and open dialogue. That's something a lot of people here enjoy. Let's imagine EVERYONE hated the new effects and were afraid of upsetting people like you who can't handle a different viewpoint? Would that help anyone?

Sevin and I were completely respectful in our critiques. If there's any bullshit here - it's coming from somewhere else. 

"Please note : This is an alternative universe of Quake, many assets and features have changed, even though it may look the same in places this code base and assets are very much different."

Bringing up points on if this is Quake enough for you/others is pointless, as it's not Quake.

Yes, this is a forum, but the point is that every time someone exerts a little creativity outside of the Quake purists idea of acceptability it becomes "it's not Quake for me, can we turn it all off, yada yada yada".

Did you play ad_tfuma, cause I swear in the middle of that I "realized" was playing Q2!!!

Anyway, maybe my use of the word BS was out of line, apologies for that.

Hope this helps, if not, bring down the console and type map E1M!, problem solved :-P 

Nothing to add. I look forward to playing through the map tonight. 

Yes, this is a forum, but the point is that every time someone exerts a little creativity outside of the Quake purists idea of acceptability it becomes "it's not Quake for me, can we turn it all off, yada yada yada".

I'm no Quake purist that's for sure. You're right about AD being something that's basically "new" and yes, we have our id1 to fall back on but here's some food for thought:

At first, just like everyone else in '96 I played blocky pixelated software Quake. For many years after that I played mushy, blurry GL_Quake because that felt right to me. After trying Quakespasm and indeed AD 1.0 which "forced" the player to play with pixels on by default I came around to really enjoy pixelated Quake. It feels more authentic and classic. Kind of akin to watching a movie in black even though there's a colorized version of the same movie that looks a bit cleaner.

My point is, that no matter what Quake really IS it's always changing and morphing and opinions change and morph along side it. And it's definitely fun and exciting to talk about it. 

I never saw a Quake map that wasn't from the Quake universe.

Here's my simple definition of the Quake universe, or there is none :

Any map that can be played/rendered by a Quake engine is from the Quake universe.

Quake is a Multiverse of parallel dimensions. The player/space-marine can go from one dimension to another one using slipgates and teleporters. So whatever the architecture and monsters he may encounter, he's traveling the Quake universe.

In some cases, he's entering a medieval place, bringing with him his usual modern weapons. In other places, the military occupies the dimensions. Because of the existence of slipgates, the forces of evil infected the whole Multiverse, so the space-marine tries to find the exit to return home (or base). Sadly, he's just lost in a Multiverse of infinite dimensions, so he'll never find back his true home.

The visual effects and game interface has nothing to do with the Quake universe.

That's my personal view. 

 

this is the best thing you've ever written here. 

What he said (dump and sevin), especially the reemergence of crisp pixels.

I like to think of Quake like this:
The universe. The funnel.
Rejects of the worlds,
Fallen from glory, cast down.
Caught in the base,
These monstrous beings,
Led by their master Quake.
Restoration--their hope,
Their goal. Back to their homes.
Then...revenge!

If the universe was a funnel, and all the world's had the same "hell" at the bottom, that is where we find ourselves, the player, desperately fighting our way back, or fighting to prevent the forces of evil from return to exact revenge on any world they can manage to return to. If only those darned scientists didn't create a slipgate and discover that the slipcurrents flow down to the bottom of the universal "funnel". 

Love it. Well said gentlemen! 

https://twitter.com/SimsOCallaghan/status/877508259661443073 

Exploration demo:
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/sep_03_ankh.zip

starting from where I left yesterday. boring stuff. 

I'm pretty sure sock reads these threads and likes feedback
I do read the func forums, I just don't reply to them much anymore. I keep an eye on the AD threads for bugs and new ideas. If I think the feedback/feature is useful to others, I will make sure its in the next version!

I was away last weekend so I asked Henrik to start a thread for this map and I am sorta surprised it has gone so well! I was expecting everyone to go crazy about using a new engine. I do hope everyone realizes that there are two engines in the zip file! Quakespasm AND Quakespasm-spike. We did spend a long time trying to make sure that both work fine with the map.

The QSS engine can run the map without rain, use impulse 160 command or add 65536 to temp1 variable in quake.rc to stop rain effect+sound. It can be a heavy drain on resources and the map still looks good with the DP style particles for items and blood.

Dots, pixels and particles!
AD has always been about particles from day one, its just that many people here have not played AD with DP/FTE clients. The fact that everyone is seeing DP style smoke and soft pixels for the first time is surprising. I really like the QSS client as a good replacement for DP because of its QS movement and effects. The rain/snow in QSS is the best version out there IMHO.

I can certainly add an option to the temp1 variable in quake.rc file to always force pixel like particles and still allow weather effects at the same time. I am planning a final release (1.60) zip file with all maps, patches and fixes together. I believe it is easier to install for macOS users, who have issues with overwriting files.

@Skacky, thanks for the demo's, they are always a pleasure to watch. I know about the flaws with the boglord, I tried to fix as many as possible. There is a whole sequence of events that happens if the player uses the water area for example. The boils are hard to see so you gain a surprise. If they glowed or looked obvious their real threat, shock and surprise would be gone. My favourite part of the boils is to work out how each one affect its surroundings. There are many setup in certain locations to catch unsuspecting monsters!

I played an older version of the level before but a lot of it has changed
I really hate public beta's, early access or sneak peaks of maps. it creates unnecessary expectation and usually ends up with someone being disappointed because its changed in a way they do not like. This map went through a lot of iterations and I think the changes made it overall stronger. Its not easy deleting stuff or re-arranging, but being attached to something in a map is a recipe for disaster in the long run.

Grenades go right through the fishing ogres, even when they turn into regular ogres
This is by design, I don't want fishing ogres waking up to grenades and if the player decides to kill them then they better be ready for a good fight! Fishing ogres are the good guys, killing them is wrong! :P

what about possible future evolutions of standard QSS? Would Spike merge your tweaks with his version
I really hope so, but that is up to Spike.

I have watched two streams so far with Daz panicking when he reached the end and deciding to go all the way back to the beginning of the map! WTF! Fifth discovering new stuff each time he restarted the map and then deciding to go backwards through the center of the map and tell everyone how its changed! :P

@Vondur, thanks for the demos, it was relaxing to watch. I hope you enjoyed yourself.

@path0gen, thanks for the demos. I tried to watch them, but you just kept going back searching for secrets all the time. I just wanted to see you complete the map!?! :)

@sevin, there is always unpopular opinions at func! I would not worry about. I know the different effect systems (Pixel/Smokey) are not going to be liked by everyone. Just use the engine you prefer and AD will switch around to suit your style. Also try out 'r_scale 2' if you really want pixel vision! :D

@AAS, thanks for the demos. Again you do seem to be addicted to going back all the time searching for secrets! I really need a forward wind button for demos ...

there is too much ammunition. I found myself never running out of shells, nails or rockets, even if I missed many of my shots.
I totally agree, there is a truck load of ammo for all weapons. You can use a triple barrel shotgun to blast your way through the map, write your name on walls with the nailguns and fill rooms to your hearts content with pineapples!
I did not want to make this map a resource struggle and there is plenty of ammo so that everyone can have fun with their favourite weapon. Just enjoy the excess and throw caution to the wind and blast your way through the map without worrying about where your next box of ammo is coming from! :D